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Author Topic: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season  (Read 1069 times)

varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 04:14:55 PM »

People may hate me for saying this...

But it's not the GMs job to develop players... That's what coaches are for...  The same coaches who sing off on RM drafting such and such player, to "fit" their system...  So you can't just completely blame the success or failure of a draft class SOLELY on the GM...

I've been saying this forever...

IMO, instead of trying to re-create the 2000 team, Gruden should have saved that money, developed our young kids, or at least find out what they had... and then made a decision going into 2019...

IMO (again)... He outsmarted himself, shit the bed with an 0-whatever start... and then I think he took the easy, cop out route... and used RM as the scapegoat... and most of the NFL feels the same...   You can't complain about talent, after you were the one who shipped all the talent away... Mack, Cooper, Patterson, Crabtree, Autry, Hester, Walford... benching Joseph, Morrow, Lee....

But he didn't... and we are what we are... Hopefully with Mayock, premium draft picks, and some cash... We can rebuild this team, that went 12-4 just 2 years ago... But I know this, I've never heard of a GM coming into a BETTER "situation" than Mayock has... and Gruden, to be honest... So we'll see... I'm confident we can definitely be better next year... how much better is the question mark...
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Raider 8

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 04:36:34 PM »

Let's see...

Conley was a brilliant pick, after we (RM) did his homework and EVERYONE HERE DOUBTED him and shit on the pick... Except yours truly...

Obi was sent packing by Gruden... and has wowed the likes of Belichick, who've kept him on the roster all season...

Vanderdoes was INJURED...

Sharpe was cut, by Gruden, for the likes of Breno Giacomini (who the FUCK?)... and then was brought BACK... after he realized he fucked up and Breno was what he always was, a BUM... And it was Gruden's decision to move a Perennial Pro Bowl LT ro RT and got him injured, leaving us to start a rookie from a NC A&T...

Marquel Lee was one of the best LB we had, outside of Morrow (ALSO brought in as a UDFA this same year)... Both of them ended up being the best LBs on the team... for 2 straight years...

This is where it gets funny, because they actually GRADED 7th round fucking picks, lmao...

But... Hester, drafted in the SEVENTH round, turned out to be pretty damn good for US... AND the Eagles, go figure... He was sent packing by who?  Gruden... For bums like Carradine, McDonald, Hankins, etc... WTF...

People put to much WHATEVER on who was drafted in what round, and yadda yadda yadda... A baller in the 6th or 7th round, is no different than a baller in the 1st or 2nd round... Only difference is the salary... Ask Antonio Brown, or Tom Brady, etc...

Not to mention, most here always wave the banner... "You can't really grade a draft for a few years"... But are smitten by this evaluation, a year later...

This draft could easily be labeled a D+ simply because Gruden (or whoever you want to blame) shipped half the draft away... and the ones who WERE shipped away, seem to be loved by their current teams...  This, IMO, wasn't a grade on the actual players/talent... it was a grade on how that draft benefited the Raiders... So when you ship half the fucking draft away... WHAT DO YOU EXPECT???

The grade would be BETTER, if we actually KEPT the players and DEVELOPED them, like a REAL  >GOOD< Coaching staff would have and could have done...

Two questions. Are you satisfied with this draft? Can you honestly say this is the quality you want from your picks every season?

Let's see...

I would have gladly kept Obi over BUM ASS Nelson or Harris...

I would have glady kept Hester over McDonald, Hankins, Rucker or Carradine...

Vanderdoes was decent, but INJURED all last year, how do you grade that?

Its the

2
0
1
7

draft for crying out loud...

C'mon CB, you're one of the main guys around here that says drafts need a few years to be graded...

This one has a shitty grade, because half the draft was sent packing...

Mind you... ALL of these players are STILL on teams in this league... So, IMO, the jury is still out...

Like I said, it's a "D+" because half the draft is no longer here... which is an accurate grade if we're talking about benefit to the Raiders...

I wouldn't call the talent level a D+... Conley is pretty damn good, Vanderdoes was good when he was healthy, Lee is developing quite well... Sharpe is what he is, a backup T, who Gruden waived... and brought back...

As for you 2nd question, I believe Obi, had he stayed, could have started here... So that's 4-5 starters out of this draft... Because you can't leave our Morrow... Hell, even Hatcher had a start...  Develop them (more than just 1 year) and who knows... So I'll take it... Not all drafts can be 100% studs...

My point is we need better than this if we are rebuilding. We can't afford to draft 1 stud and 5 or 6 guys who are either cut or injured half the time. And we surely can't draft 5 or 6 defensive players in this draft and then have those spots all be our biggest weaknesses in 2 years.

This isn't about assigning blame, it's about getting better. We need to draft 3 studs with our top picks and a couple of solid starters later on. That is how you rebuild.

Otherwise we are stuck in the vicious cycle of drafting one starter a year and by the time they hit FA, they are either too expensive or they're gone.

And I agree... But still, no matter what, you have to develop your players...
If you're drafting guys and WILLINGLY cutting them (rebuild or not), instead of developing them... its a bad recipe...

Typically, your 1st rounder is a definite starter, after that, its a crap shoot... although I believe Obi could have supplanted Nelson or Harris... but they gave up on him... Injuries happen...

All I know... It's gonna be pretty damn hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 40....


Exactly VA.  "Your Players" meaning not Grudens. 

Its very common for a new coach to clear the roster if he doesn't like the players.  It really doesn't matter how they do at other places "BTW none of them have shown that we passed on anything special" if they don't fit with the new coach/system. 

The jury is still out on Conley.  Get back to me with how brilliant he is after he starts 16+ games in a season and makes a pro bowl. 

Obi was inactive almost the entire season.  Check out this state line 2 years into the NFL. 

STATS
Regular Season
Career
TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   FF   FR   YDS   INT   YDS   AVG   TD   LNG   PD   STF   STFYDS   KB
3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   9   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0


Vander plump was injured when we drafted him and got injured again.  After a good game against TN he sucked the rest of his rookie season.


5th through 7th round picks are mostly disposable.  We didn't need to keep Sharp after drafting 2 rookie tackles who were obviously better than him.  We only brought him back because of injuries and the fact he was in camp with us.  Not because we made a mistake letting him go. 


BTW Sharp was cut Sept 1st.  Breno was cut Aug 27th. 

The fact is this wasn't a good draft.  Even if all of these guys were still on the roster playing exactly like they have since they got cut it wouldn't be a good draft.

If Gruden hadn't cut them, we could of gone 0-16 with them playing and had a chance at Bosa. Fucking Gruden!
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 04:39:18 PM »

Let's see...

Conley was a brilliant pick, after we (RM) did his homework and EVERYONE HERE DOUBTED him and shit on the pick... Except yours truly...

Obi was sent packing by Gruden... and has wowed the likes of Belichick, who've kept him on the roster all season...

Vanderdoes was INJURED...

Sharpe was cut, by Gruden, for the likes of Breno Giacomini (who the FUCK?)... and then was brought BACK... after he realized he fucked up and Breno was what he always was, a BUM... And it was Gruden's decision to move a Perennial Pro Bowl LT ro RT and got him injured, leaving us to start a rookie from a NC A&T...

Marquel Lee was one of the best LB we had, outside of Morrow (ALSO brought in as a UDFA this same year)... Both of them ended up being the best LBs on the team... for 2 straight years...

This is where it gets funny, because they actually GRADED 7th round fucking picks, lmao...

But... Hester, drafted in the SEVENTH round, turned out to be pretty damn good for US... AND the Eagles, go figure... He was sent packing by who?  Gruden... For bums like Carradine, McDonald, Hankins, etc... WTF...

People put to much WHATEVER on who was drafted in what round, and yadda yadda yadda... A baller in the 6th or 7th round, is no different than a baller in the 1st or 2nd round... Only difference is the salary... Ask Antonio Brown, or Tom Brady, etc...

Not to mention, most here always wave the banner... "You can't really grade a draft for a few years"... But are smitten by this evaluation, a year later...

This draft could easily be labeled a D+ simply because Gruden (or whoever you want to blame) shipped half the draft away... and the ones who WERE shipped away, seem to be loved by their current teams...  This, IMO, wasn't a grade on the actual players/talent... it was a grade on how that draft benefited the Raiders... So when you ship half the fucking draft away... WHAT DO YOU EXPECT???

The grade would be BETTER, if we actually KEPT the players and DEVELOPED them, like a REAL  >GOOD< Coaching staff would have and could have done...

Two questions. Are you satisfied with this draft? Can you honestly say this is the quality you want from your picks every season?

Let's see...

I would have gladly kept Obi over BUM ASS Nelson or Harris...

I would have glady kept Hester over McDonald, Hankins, Rucker or Carradine...

Vanderdoes was decent, but INJURED all last year, how do you grade that?

Its the

2
0
1
7

draft for crying out loud...

C'mon CB, you're one of the main guys around here that says drafts need a few years to be graded...

This one has a shitty grade, because half the draft was sent packing...

Mind you... ALL of these players are STILL on teams in this league... So, IMO, the jury is still out...

Like I said, it's a "D+" because half the draft is no longer here... which is an accurate grade if we're talking about benefit to the Raiders...

I wouldn't call the talent level a D+... Conley is pretty damn good, Vanderdoes was good when he was healthy, Lee is developing quite well... Sharpe is what he is, a backup T, who Gruden waived... and brought back...

As for you 2nd question, I believe Obi, had he stayed, could have started here... So that's 4-5 starters out of this draft... Because you can't leave our Morrow... Hell, even Hatcher had a start...  Develop them (more than just 1 year) and who knows... So I'll take it... Not all drafts can be 100% studs...

My point is we need better than this if we are rebuilding. We can't afford to draft 1 stud and 5 or 6 guys who are either cut or injured half the time. And we surely can't draft 5 or 6 defensive players in this draft and then have those spots all be our biggest weaknesses in 2 years.

This isn't about assigning blame, it's about getting better. We need to draft 3 studs with our top picks and a couple of solid starters later on. That is how you rebuild.

Otherwise we are stuck in the vicious cycle of drafting one starter a year and by the time they hit FA, they are either too expensive or they're gone.

And I agree... But still, no matter what, you have to develop your players...
If you're drafting guys and WILLINGLY cutting them (rebuild or not), instead of developing them... its a bad recipe...

Typically, your 1st rounder is a definite starter, after that, its a crap shoot... although I believe Obi could have supplanted Nelson or Harris... but they gave up on him... Injuries happen...

All I know... It's gonna be pretty damn hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 40....


Exactly VA.  "Your Players" meaning not Grudens. 

Its very common for a new coach to clear the roster if he doesn't like the players.  It really doesn't matter how they do at other places "BTW none of them have shown that we passed on anything special" if they don't fit with the new coach/system. 

The jury is still out on Conley.  Get back to me with how brilliant he is after he starts 16+ games in a season and makes a pro bowl. 

Obi was inactive almost the entire season.  Check out this state line 2 years into the NFL. 

STATS
Regular Season
Career
TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   FF   FR   YDS   INT   YDS   AVG   TD   LNG   PD   STF   STFYDS   KB
3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   9   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0


Vander plump was injured when we drafted him and got injured again.  After a good game against TN he sucked the rest of his rookie season.


5th through 7th round picks are mostly disposable.  We didn't need to keep Sharp after drafting 2 rookie tackles who were obviously better than him.  We only brought him back because of injuries and the fact he was in camp with us.  Not because we made a mistake letting him go. 


BTW Sharp was cut Sept 1st.  Breno was cut Aug 27th. 

The fact is this wasn't a good draft.  Even if all of these guys were still on the roster playing exactly like they have since they got cut it wouldn't be a good draft.

If Gruden hadn't cut them, we could of gone 0-16 with them playing and had a chance at Bosa. Fucking Gruden!

If Gruden had left the team alone... and coached that 2017 team up...

We would have been a playoff team...

COACHING (specifically changing OCs) and injuries were the reason for the drop from 2016 to 2017...
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ghostmech

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 05:46:16 PM »


Exactly VA.  "Your Players" meaning not Grudens. 

Its very common for a new coach to clear the roster if he doesn't like the players.  It really doesn't matter how they do at other places "BTW none of them have shown that we passed on anything special" if they don't fit with the new coach/system. 

The jury is still out on Conley.  Get back to me with how brilliant he is after he starts 16+ games in a season and makes a pro bowl. 

Obi was inactive almost the entire season.  Check out this state line 2 years into the NFL. 

STATS
Regular Season
Career
TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   FF   FR   YDS   INT   YDS   AVG   TD   LNG   PD   STF   STFYDS   KB
3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   9   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0


Vander plump was injured when we drafted him and got injured again.  After a good game against TN he sucked the rest of his rookie season.


5th through 7th round picks are mostly disposable.  We didn't need to keep Sharp after drafting 2 rookie tackles who were obviously better than him.  We only brought him back because of injuries and the fact he was in camp with us.  Not because we made a mistake letting him go. 


BTW Sharp was cut Sept 1st.  Breno was cut Aug 27th. 

The fact is this wasn't a good draft.  Even if all of these guys were still on the roster playing exactly like they have since they got cut it wouldn't be a good draft.

If Gruden hadn't cut them, we could of gone 0-16 with them playing and had a chance at Bosa. Fucking Gruden!

If Gruden had left the team alone... and coached that 2017 team up...

We would have been a playoff team...

COACHING (specifically changing OCs) and injuries were the reason for the drop from 2016 to 2017...
[/quote]

I'm not going to rehash this thread and get into a big deal, but I must point out; if you are going to attribute changing OCs and injuries as the reason we sucked in 2017, then you must admit it was even worse in 2018.  Not only did we change OCs, we changed the whole damn coaching staff.  And talk about injuries?  Shesh, entire position groups we a mess with injury this last year.  We were playing roulette with the waiver wires almost every week to fill holes.

Continuing to rehash 2017 or 2018 and blaming anyone does nothing but continues the partisanship we all have for this guy or that guy.  Those seasons are done, nothing can be gained at this point.  I am looking toward 2019 and the great opportunities we have if we play our cards right starting with the draft.
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Raider 8

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 05:57:54 PM »


Exactly VA.  "Your Players" meaning not Grudens. 

Its very common for a new coach to clear the roster if he doesn't like the players.  It really doesn't matter how they do at other places "BTW none of them have shown that we passed on anything special" if they don't fit with the new coach/system. 

The jury is still out on Conley.  Get back to me with how brilliant he is after he starts 16+ games in a season and makes a pro bowl. 

Obi was inactive almost the entire season.  Check out this state line 2 years into the NFL. 

STATS
Regular Season
Career
TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   FF   FR   YDS   INT   YDS   AVG   TD   LNG   PD   STF   STFYDS   KB
3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   9   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0


Vander plump was injured when we drafted him and got injured again.  After a good game against TN he sucked the rest of his rookie season.


5th through 7th round picks are mostly disposable.  We didn't need to keep Sharp after drafting 2 rookie tackles who were obviously better than him.  We only brought him back because of injuries and the fact he was in camp with us.  Not because we made a mistake letting him go. 


BTW Sharp was cut Sept 1st.  Breno was cut Aug 27th. 

The fact is this wasn't a good draft.  Even if all of these guys were still on the roster playing exactly like they have since they got cut it wouldn't be a good draft.

If Gruden hadn't cut them, we could of gone 0-16 with them playing and had a chance at Bosa. Fucking Gruden!

If Gruden had left the team alone... and coached that 2017 team up...

We would have been a playoff team...

COACHING (specifically changing OCs) and injuries were the reason for the drop from 2016 to 2017...

I'm not going to rehash this thread and get into a big deal, but I must point out; if you are going to attribute changing OCs and injuries as the reason we sucked in 2017, then you must admit it was even worse in 2018.  Not only did we change OCs, we changed the whole damn coaching staff.  And talk about injuries?  Shesh, entire position groups we a mess with injury this last year.  We were playing roulette with the waiver wires almost every week to fill holes.

Continuing to rehash 2017 or 2018 and blaming anyone does nothing but continues the partisanship we all have for this guy or that guy.  Those seasons are done, nothing can be gained at this point.  I am looking toward 2019 and the great opportunities we have if we play our cards right starting with the draft.
[/quote]

I was just kidding, most of what we argue about is hypothetical and will never know the answer so it doesn't matter.

As of Monday, we're 0-0
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 06:01:09 PM »


Exactly VA.  "Your Players" meaning not Grudens. 

Its very common for a new coach to clear the roster if he doesn't like the players.  It really doesn't matter how they do at other places "BTW none of them have shown that we passed on anything special" if they don't fit with the new coach/system. 

The jury is still out on Conley.  Get back to me with how brilliant he is after he starts 16+ games in a season and makes a pro bowl. 

Obi was inactive almost the entire season.  Check out this state line 2 years into the NFL. 

STATS
Regular Season
Career
TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   FF   FR   YDS   INT   YDS   AVG   TD   LNG   PD   STF   STFYDS   KB
3   3   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   9   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0.0   0   0   0   0   0   0


Vander plump was injured when we drafted him and got injured again.  After a good game against TN he sucked the rest of his rookie season.


5th through 7th round picks are mostly disposable.  We didn't need to keep Sharp after drafting 2 rookie tackles who were obviously better than him.  We only brought him back because of injuries and the fact he was in camp with us.  Not because we made a mistake letting him go. 


BTW Sharp was cut Sept 1st.  Breno was cut Aug 27th. 

The fact is this wasn't a good draft.  Even if all of these guys were still on the roster playing exactly like they have since they got cut it wouldn't be a good draft.

If Gruden hadn't cut them, we could of gone 0-16 with them playing and had a chance at Bosa. Fucking Gruden!

If Gruden had left the team alone... and coached that 2017 team up...

We would have been a playoff team...

COACHING (specifically changing OCs) and injuries were the reason for the drop from 2016 to 2017...

I'm not going to rehash this thread and get into a big deal, but I must point out; if you are going to attribute changing OCs and injuries as the reason we sucked in 2017, then you must admit it was even worse in 2018.  Not only did we change OCs, we changed the whole damn coaching staff.  And talk about injuries?  Shesh, entire position groups we a mess with injury this last year.  We were playing roulette with the waiver wires almost every week to fill holes.

Continuing to rehash 2017 or 2018 and blaming anyone does nothing but continues the partisanship we all have for this guy or that guy.  Those seasons are done, nothing can be gained at this point.  I am looking toward 2019 and the great opportunities we have if we play our cards right starting with the draft.

By changing OCs I meant going from a proven, veteran OC (Musgrave) to a rookie, "buddy ol pal" OC in Downing...

I don't think we're meaning the same thing... I actually think Gruden is better than Musgrave... and exponentially better than Downing...

Which is the basis of me saying that with that 2017 roster, we could have been a playoff team with Gruden, Guenther and Bisaccia... and why I believe, from the very start, that Gruden fucked up... and why I was so "negative" once he started dropping talent (Crabtree, Patterson, Autry, etc) early into his 2nd tenure here... and it just stacked on with the Mack trade, Conley, Joseph benching to the Cooper trade and hit its climax (actually opposite of) when we got smoked by SF 34 to 3...

And I too, hope they can turn this thing around... and that the decision making is a lot better this offseason... because whatever philosophy he had LAST year... was complete shit...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 06:04:26 PM by varaider »
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2019, 10:43:47 AM »

Let's see...

Conley was a brilliant pick, after we (RM) did his homework and EVERYONE HERE DOUBTED him and shit on the pick... Except yours truly...

Obi was sent packing by Gruden... and has wowed the likes of Belichick, who've kept him on the roster all season...

Vanderdoes was INJURED...

Sharpe was cut, by Gruden, for the likes of Breno Giacomini (who the FUCK?)... and then was brought BACK... after he realized he fucked up and Breno was what he always was, a BUM... And it was Gruden's decision to move a Perennial Pro Bowl LT ro RT and got him injured, leaving us to start a rookie from a NC A&T...

Marquel Lee was one of the best LB we had, outside of Morrow (ALSO brought in as a UDFA this same year)... Both of them ended up being the best LBs on the team... for 2 straight years...

This is where it gets funny, because they actually GRADED 7th round fucking picks, lmao...

But... Hester, drafted in the SEVENTH round, turned out to be pretty damn good for US... AND the Eagles, go figure... He was sent packing by who?  Gruden... For bums like Carradine, McDonald, Hankins, etc... WTF...

People put to much WHATEVER on who was drafted in what round, and yadda yadda yadda... A baller in the 6th or 7th round, is no different than a baller in the 1st or 2nd round... Only difference is the salary... Ask Antonio Brown, or Tom Brady, etc...

Not to mention, most here always wave the banner... "You can't really grade a draft for a few years"... But are smitten by this evaluation, a year later...

This draft could easily be labeled a D+ simply because Gruden (or whoever you want to blame) shipped half the draft away... and the ones who WERE shipped away, seem to be loved by their current teams...  This, IMO, wasn't a grade on the actual players/talent... it was a grade on how that draft benefited the Raiders... So when you ship half the fucking draft away... WHAT DO YOU EXPECT???

The grade would be BETTER, if we actually KEPT the players and DEVELOPED them, like a REAL  >GOOD< Coaching staff would have and could have done...

Two questions. Are you satisfied with this draft? Can you honestly say this is the quality you want from your picks every season?

Let's see...

I would have gladly kept Obi over BUM ASS Nelson or Harris...

I would have glady kept Hester over McDonald, Hankins, Rucker or Carradine...

Vanderdoes was decent, but INJURED all last year, how do you grade that?

Its the

2
0
1
7

draft for crying out loud...

C'mon CB, you're one of the main guys around here that says drafts need a few years to be graded...

This one has a shitty grade, because half the draft was sent packing...

Mind you... ALL of these players are STILL on teams in this league... So, IMO, the jury is still out...

Like I said, it's a "D+" because half the draft is no longer here... which is an accurate grade if we're talking about benefit to the Raiders...

I wouldn't call the talent level a D+... Conley is pretty damn good, Vanderdoes was good when he was healthy, Lee is developing quite well... Sharpe is what he is, a backup T, who Gruden waived... and brought back...

As for you 2nd question, I believe Obi, had he stayed, could have started here... So that's 4-5 starters out of this draft... Because you can't leave our Morrow... Hell, even Hatcher had a start...  Develop them (more than just 1 year) and who knows... So I'll take it... Not all drafts can be 100% studs...

My point is we need better than this if we are rebuilding. We can't afford to draft 1 stud and 5 or 6 guys who are either cut or injured half the time. And we surely can't draft 5 or 6 defensive players in this draft and then have those spots all be our biggest weaknesses in 2 years.

This isn't about assigning blame, it's about getting better. We need to draft 3 studs with our top picks and a couple of solid starters later on. That is how you rebuild.

Otherwise we are stuck in the vicious cycle of drafting one starter a year and by the time they hit FA, they are either too expensive or they're gone.

And I agree... But still, no matter what, you have to develop your players...

If you're drafting guys and WILLINGLY cutting them (rebuild or not), instead of developing them... its a bad recipe...

Typically, your 1st rounder is a definite starter, after that, its a crap shoot... although I believe Obi could have supplanted Nelson or Harris... but they gave up on him... Injuries happen...

All I know... It's gonna be pretty damn hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 40....
I disagree with one of your premises.  If somebody doesn't fit the scheme you installing the obviously they have to go.  That's why the good teams aren't switching schemes all the damned time.  They have years of drafting guys to fit one scheme.  Eventually you should hit on one.  Hell even Cleveland appears to have addressed their qb position.  I have honestly wondered if they ever would under that ownership
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2019, 12:19:53 PM »

I disagree with one of your premises.  If somebody doesn't fit the scheme you installing the obviously they have to go.  That's why the good teams aren't switching schemes all the damned time.  They have years of drafting guys to fit one scheme.  Eventually you should hit on one.  Hell even Cleveland appears to have addressed their qb position.  I have honestly wondered if they ever would under that ownership

The kid was a ballhawk Safety... With speed and size... and an abundance of raw talent... Like I said, GOOD/GREAT coaches know how to get the most from they're playmakers....  Not to mention JDR put the man at CORNERBACK.. like WTF... IMO, we let one slip away, by being impatient and by being retarded (Cornerback?)... Again... MY opinion...

Our defensive scheme... from last year to this year, did not change barely at all, aside from terminology and a few tweaks (obviously, due to regime change)... But schematically (Xs & Os) It was still a 4-3... and we still ran basically the same nickel and 3 safety package that JDR ran...  They ran the same double A (nickel) shit, but way less than he did in Cincy... I was expecting to see WAY more of that, considering our lack of a pass rush...

Like I said.... it's gonna be super hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 36... And we should definitely see what kind of player "fits" here... with our 4 most important picks of this regime's era...
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2019, 09:15:11 AM »

I disagree with one of your premises.  If somebody doesn't fit the scheme you installing the obviously they have to go.  That's why the good teams aren't switching schemes all the damned time.  They have years of drafting guys to fit one scheme.  Eventually you should hit on one.  Hell even Cleveland appears to have addressed their qb position.  I have honestly wondered if they ever would under that ownership

The kid was a ballhawk Safety... With speed and size... and an abundance of raw talent... Like I said, GOOD/GREAT coaches know how to get the most from they're playmakers....  Not to mention JDR put the man at CORNERBACK.. like WTF... IMO, we let one slip away, by being impatient and by being retarded (Cornerback?)... Again... MY opinion...

Our defensive scheme... from last year to this year, did not change barely at all, aside from terminology and a few tweaks (obviously, due to regime change)... But schematically (Xs & Os) It was still a 4-3... and we still ran basically the same nickel and 3 safety package that JDR ran...  They ran the same double A (nickel) shit, but way less than he did in Cincy... I was expecting to see WAY more of that, considering our lack of a pass rush...

Like I said.... it's gonna be super hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 36... And we should definitely see what kind of player "fits" here... with our 4 most important picks of this regime's era...
first my reply was in reference to your referance about men not fitting a scheme.  If you re read your reply to me.  Never once did you address my statement.  All you in fact did was say that the scheme didn't change.  Which meant if he fit the previous scheme then he fits this one yes? And your last paragraph is spot the fuck on.  Personally I want 4 in the first 36
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »

I disagree with one of your premises.  If somebody doesn't fit the scheme you installing the obviously they have to go.  That's why the good teams aren't switching schemes all the damned time.  They have years of drafting guys to fit one scheme.  Eventually you should hit on one.  Hell even Cleveland appears to have addressed their qb position.  I have honestly wondered if they ever would under that ownership

The kid was a ballhawk Safety... With speed and size... and an abundance of raw talent... Like I said, GOOD/GREAT coaches know how to get the most from they're playmakers....  Not to mention JDR put the man at CORNERBACK.. like WTF... IMO, we let one slip away, by being impatient and by being retarded (Cornerback?)... Again... MY opinion...

Our defensive scheme... from last year to this year, did not change barely at all, aside from terminology and a few tweaks (obviously, due to regime change)... But schematically (Xs & Os) It was still a 4-3... and we still ran basically the same nickel and 3 safety package that JDR ran...  They ran the same double A (nickel) shit, but way less than he did in Cincy... I was expecting to see WAY more of that, considering our lack of a pass rush...

Like I said.... it's gonna be super hard to fuck up 4 picks in the first 36... And we should definitely see what kind of player "fits" here... with our 4 most important picks of this regime's era...
first my reply was in reference to your referance about men not fitting a scheme.  If you re read your reply to me.  Never once did you address my statement.  All you in fact did was say that the scheme didn't change.  Which meant if he fit the previous scheme then he fits this one yes? And your last paragraph is spot the fuck on.  Personally I want 4 in the first 36

Which statement are you referring to, lol...

I'm just saying, we should have held on to the kid... He was a 2nd round pick after all... and considering last year was a "tank"... We could have really benefited from him playing...

It's not like he could have done any worse than Harris or Nelson...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 05:38:00 PM by varaider »
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2019, 02:18:00 PM »



Familiar name on this list...
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2019, 04:19:46 PM »



Familiar name on this list...
kept who Hayden?  DJ Hayden was a first rounder no?
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805raiderslo

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2019, 06:04:41 PM »



Familiar name on this list...
kept who Hayden?  DJ Hayden was a first rounder no?
Not saying much coming from the AFC SOUTH

Where is he on this this list??
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varaider

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2019, 06:19:40 PM »

Always find a way to hate on the man, never fails here...

I said during his last couple years here that he was just starting to come into his own... I'm just glad to see him still balling... I guess most forgot how the man is even lucky to even be alive, this game almost cost him his life... and he still has the heart (LITERALLY) to play it...  So I'll ALWAYS be a fan...

And to see him thriving is a good thing... Mind you, he's on the same team as arguably the best CB in the league, and graded higher than him... And the AFC South is LOADED with CB talent... I believe Kareem Jackson is the best CB on the market right now, Grade-wise and opinion...

(FYI, he graded higher than every CB on our team not named Conley... Ouch, I bet that stings for the haters)
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: Grading Raiders 2017 draft class after second season
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 03:04:40 PM »

Always find a way to hate on the man, never fails here...

I said during his last couple years here that he was just starting to come into his own... I'm just glad to see him still balling... I guess most forgot how the man is even lucky to even be alive, this game almost cost him his life... and he still has the heart (LITERALLY) to play it...  So I'll ALWAYS be a fan...

And to see him thriving is a good thing... Mind you, he's on the same team as arguably the best CB in the league, and graded higher than him... And the AFC South is LOADED with CB talent... I believe Kareem Jackson is the best CB on the market right now, Grade-wise and opinion...

(FYI, he graded higher than every CB on our team not named Conley... Ouch, I bet that stings for the haters)
Hayden didn't turn out to be bad.  But honestly he never lived up to his draft status.  And guys like that get cut by the teams that draft them for the most part.  I'm glad he was able to stick somewhere.  Good for him.  The raiders ran out of patience
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