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Author Topic: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots  (Read 268 times)

varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2019, 01:18:41 PM »

Anyone with Common Sense would admit that a GM going 36-60 over 6 years is not good enough.  One winning season with 7 last second wins.  Not good enough. 

What the hell are you talking about, bro???  NEWS FLASH... Reggie is GONE!  Who here is saying that he should be here?  Because obviously, you're arguing that with someone... someone NOT named me... But funny you start out by using the "you are what your record says you are" logic... Then totally contradict yourself with the "7 last second wins" comment... Guess what... a win is a win, especially in the NFL (football PERIOD really), whether it is a blowout, or a walk off field goal... It's not called THE game of inches for nothing...  But using your logic, what about 2015, when we went 7-9, with 5 one possession losses... or 2014 where it was the same thing, 5 one possession losses...  and I believe we had the most "youngest players taking snaps" in the league that year...

Was there bad coaching.  Sure,  At the end of the day Gruden wouldn't have been hired if Reggie had done a better job.  You are right.  Reggie should have been fired with Del Rio.

Did you really say Gruden was hired because RM did a "bad job"... Not the HC... but JDR was fired, and Gruden hired because RM did a bad job... Hilarious... Coming from the same guy who said JDR lost this team week 3 of last year in Washington because "something happened"... Righhhhhhht....If MD though RM should be fired with JDR, he would have been...  But considering the guy completely turned around this organization... which no one can deny... maybe that's why he stayed...

Not to mention, both MD and RM said one of the main reasons LDR was fired, was his inability to develop the young talent on the team (google it)...  So nice try...

Prior to getting fired did Reggie ever publicly say he didn't agree with any of the moves.  Remember Reggie was fired he did not resign.  If he thought Jon was making horrible decisions that would reflect on him he should have resigned.  After all his title was GM.  Its too late now for him to say he wasn't on board.

He said "his hands were tied".... literally, concerning the Mack trade... and the context of the statement suggested that he and Gruden/MD were at odds on whether or not Mack was "worth it"...  And guess what genius.. he pretty much DID "resign" (in a sense) he was asked to stay on for the rest of the season, he declined... as well as Clinkscales, who stopped showing up once RM walked... and he (Clinksclaes) was STILL EMPLOYED by the Raiders up until last week... I think walking away midseason means he wasn't "on board"... (Shoulda researched that one a little bit before jumping out there... sorry...

I don't look at Mayok like a General Manager.  I look at it like Jon picked a top Scout and administrative assistant or assistant GM.  Mayok would never have left the NFL Network just to be a scout and Jon wasn't going to find anyone to take the GM spot and report to him.  I don't see the difference between Jon picking his GM or Mike Shanahan, Bill Parcels, Bill Belecheck all holding both positions.  All of these coaches were either named or acted as GM's but have/had other staff to assist them. 

So who do you look at as the "GM" of this team?  Gruden?  GREAT!  So we have 2 guys with literally ZERO GM EXPERIENCE running the show... No experience dealing with agents, no experience courting free agents, no experience with contract structures, no experience dealing with other GMs in terms of trades and compensation...  If you don't find that concerning, I don't know what to tell you... We could very well get RAPED on any and every "deal" we try to make in the offseason, whther by trade, or contracts...

And LMAO at you putting Gruden in the same category as Parcells and Belichick... you're drunk, lol...  What you left out is that ALL of those coaches have legit winning records and success doing both... Gruden is 1-2 games over .500 and has literally ZERO GM experience...

I agree with you that Jon has been calling the shots since day one.  I'm glad he has.  This is what rebuilding a shit roster/organization looks like.

We didn't have to rebuild, we had one of the most talented offenses in the league, it was just fucked all to hell by a rookie OC who was in over his head... And he literally stripped the defense down to the worst in the league, after we made significant improvement last year... It was just the offense that shit the bed every week... because the defense routinely made stops and kept us in games... but with no offensive help, they broke down late...

Its not just that Jon loves Vets.  He had to sign older players to short term deals to field a team while developing the few good younger players he inherited. 

Were you paying attention brother?  JG absolutely loves his Vets... Have you not paid him any mind his entire coaching career?  Look at his Tampa teams, even after the Super Bowl... The man even said HIMSELF he prefers veterans because of how they practice and lead...  And the short term deals/developing young players was/is RMs strategy... The PROBLEM WAS, JG let all the TALENTED ones walk... Mack, Cooper, Crabtree, Bowman, Irvin, Autry, Hester, Patterson, Walford... and BENCHED our best young players early, ... Conley, Joseph, Morrow, Lee...  in lieu of these bum ass vets like R. Nelson, Leon Hall, Erik Harris, Melvin, DRC, Derrick Johnson, etc, etc, etc and all those BUMS he brought over from Dallas.

What he SHOULD have done, was try to coach the roster that was HERE, considering OFFENSE was our biggest issue and JG was "supposed" to be this Offensive "genius"... And what's funny, that I keep reiterating... The ONLY guys balling out this year we REGGIE'S guys... Conley, Joseph, Cook, Hudson, KO, Richard, Lynch, Morrow, Lee, Ellis, Hurst... How IRONIC!  He could have coached last year's roster up, kept it intact and tried to improve on it.. and could have released them THIS offseason... and STILL have a loads of cap space... Why?  Because RM structured the contracts that way... Why again?  So he could resign Mack and Cooper...

4-12 this season was not a failure it should have been expected.  Even with all of Reggie roster last season we only won 2 more games. (That should tell you something VA)  If we are 4-12 our first year in Vegas that will be a failure.  Next season will be rough as well but I could see signs of this team getting better over the last half of this season and I expect to see that progress continue into next year.

This might be the funniest shit of your entire post.... So you start out calling RM a failure, for his record... But say 4-12 is not, because it should have been expected... and that it should take at least 2-3 years for us to see success...

MEAWHILE... RM inherited a team that had NEVER had a "real" GM... as a rookie GM himself... a team that was OVER THE CAP... and had NO DRAFT PICKS to immediately start rebuilding... NO COACH that we even come close to this place (they were LITERALLY turning down the job, Peyton, Petrino, etc) but somehow that scenario is "better" than what Gruden is inheriting/starting with after tearing it all to hell, HIMSELF...

The total contradiction in what you said there SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING brother, lol...

Of course if we have to play in a stadium with no home field advantage it could cost us some games.

Now, with that said, think about 2 inexperienced "GMs" trying to lure Free Agents and big name players to the team with no home?  If I was an agent I'd be licking my chops at Gruden/Mayock and that 78M of cap space and NO experience dealing with agents...

But I do find it funny... that you're giving him an excuse for losing games...  ALREADY (home field advantage, really) like a fucking deposit!  Lol... Cmon Nut...

And FYI, this topic was never about Reggie and the job he did... It was about Gruden and the job HE did this season... and him now having total control to do whatever the hell he wants with literally NO CHECK AND BALANCE...

And some here will call all of this "hate"... Nahhhhh... it's just MY CONCERNS about the future of this football team... and the only thing to go off, is a bunch of seriously detrimental moves, an offense that looked like shit 90% of the season (when that was supposed to be his specialty)... the worst defense in the league... whom he stripped of its heart and sole, and talent... and a host of draft picks, held by 2 guys with literally ZERO drafting experience.... And if you "agree" that he's been running the show from Day 1... Then I don't see how you can't hold him responsible...

(Edit - Sorry for sounding like a dickhead...)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 02:04:01 PM by varaider »
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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2019, 01:24:38 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?
'

Denver media is jealous of how the Raiders are rebuilding right now.  Mark Schlereth said on Denver Radio yesterday that privately Gruden admitted to him that they are tearing the team down so they can build it the right way.  They have even started giving credit to Jon for trading Mack and Cooper to gain draft capitol and not have to mortgage the future on players who weren't making enough of a difference to get wins.

SO... he gets a pass for LYING to Raider Nation... "Win a Super Bowl for Oakland"... "Here to win now"...

And how do you give credit for draft capitol, when the guys making the picks... One has TERRIBLE personnel experience, dating back over 10 years... The other has ZERO experience as a GM and has never drafted a player in his life... It's easy to make mock drafts, because you aren't held ACCOUNTABLE for 32 teams' success or failure...

And those 2 players, literally propelled both their respective teams to the playoffs... and literally balled out the entire time with their new teams... If Gruden was such a great coach (TBD) he should have been able to do the same thing with those 2 players... Because they CERTAINLY made a difference in winning in Chicago and Dallas... WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT!
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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2019, 01:28:11 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?

to answer your question, no I don't know 100%. I just know that's exactly what they did. And Mark is always accountable, he's the owner but when it comes to Personnel moves I tend to think that he would defer to Gruden on all of those matters, don't you?  you don't give a coach a 10-year 100 million dollar contract to micromanage him....

and to your last point, that's exactly what I mean by using common sense. No one knows what's going on behind those closed doors oh, but you can look at all the moves and actions taken and put together a pretty solid opinion. One that shared by 99% of the football world.

Another thing that I think people fail to realize is that we don't have a single person in the building (in their expected positions or title) that knows how to facilitate trades, deal with agents, and experience with actually dealing with other general managers in terms of working out trades and shit like that very that's a scary thing. People tend to defer and talk about all these draft picks, but do either of these guys have any experience on what to do with those draft picks? The answer is no.

all I've been saying this entire time is that Jon Gruden is calling the shots, which ultimately means that he had the final say on any and every move that was made. Not Reggie, not Mark not anyone else but Jon Gruden and his vision for what he wanted as a football team.  it doesn't matter whose idea it was to make the trade, it doesn't matter who wanted to trade, it doesn't matter who didn't want to trade, because no matter what the final call came from Jon Gruden.  Period.

The fact that people continue to try and argue this point with me is just ludicrous.

There ain’t no Hate in this response:)

We gotta cross our fingers!!! That’s where I’m at .

And I'm with you brother, 100%

I'm just not one of those fans that think just because it's John("Chucky") Gruden and TV star Mayock that we automatically got this in the bag ,quite the contrary, IMO...


Dude were all Raider Fans.  We know nothing is ever in the "Bag".  We all lived through New England years ago and then again in the Super Bowl against the Buc's.

Perhaps you should read some (more) of these threads brother... I'm literally called a hater and ridiculed (to which I give ZERO fucks, lol) for having concerns...

Which suggests to me... that these people have NO concerns... which means they think we got this in the bag...

I know we're all fans... but just because I'm not in the Gruden Cult Club, where he can do no wrong... doesn't mean I'm a not fan...  OR that my concerns aren't worthy of warrant...
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nutmg1

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2019, 01:52:35 PM »



Found this tweet today...

Quote
Scott Winter @Scott_WinterNFL

Regardless of the record, which in his own words he said to be judged by, Reggie left this organization 100% better than when he started. Front office is modernized, Cap space, and contracts give #Raiders fans hope for the future. Plus future draft picks for Mayock and Gruden. https://t.co/zm51sKRL4G

DAMN IT!!! This contradicts everything!!! Big Reg didn't get us those draft picks!! It was over his dead body!! GRU got us those draft picks!!

 o;) :o

Knew you would take the bait... (See... your reply... definition of hater shit, lol)...

He meant that Mayock gets the normalcy of coming into a team with actual draft picks... Hence the period, and not being listed after a comma like the rest...

When RM took the job, we didn't have a 1st. 2nd or 3rd rounder (His first pick was a compensatory pick at the bottom of the 3rd, Tony Bergstrom... Who's started a huge chunk of the last 2-3 season at center for the Redskins...

Nice try tho...

LOL

Yea then he had his first full draft and boy did it turn our franchise around.


2013
Table inside Article
Round   Player   Pos.   College
1   DJ Hayden   CB   Houston
2   Menelik Watson   T   Florida State
3   Sio Moore   LB   Connecticut
4   Tyler Wilson   QB   Arkansas
6a.   Nick Kasa   TE   Colorado
6b.   Latavius Murray   RB   Central Florida
6c.   Mychal Rivera   TE   Tennesee
6d.   Stacy McGee   DT   Oklahoma
7a.   Brice Butler   WR   San Diego State
7b.   David Bass   DE   Missouri Western State


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nutmg1

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2019, 02:01:27 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?

to answer your question, no I don't know 100%. I just know that's exactly what they did. And Mark is always accountable, he's the owner but when it comes to Personnel moves I tend to think that he would defer to Gruden on all of those matters, don't you?  you don't give a coach a 10-year 100 million dollar contract to micromanage him....

and to your last point, that's exactly what I mean by using common sense. No one knows what's going on behind those closed doors oh, but you can look at all the moves and actions taken and put together a pretty solid opinion. One that shared by 99% of the football world.

Another thing that I think people fail to realize is that we don't have a single person in the building (in their expected positions or title) that knows how to facilitate trades, deal with agents, and experience with actually dealing with other general managers in terms of working out trades and shit like that very that's a scary thing. People tend to defer and talk about all these draft picks, but do either of these guys have any experience on what to do with those draft picks? The answer is no.

all I've been saying this entire time is that Jon Gruden is calling the shots, which ultimately means that he had the final say on any and every move that was made. Not Reggie, not Mark not anyone else but Jon Gruden and his vision for what he wanted as a football team.  it doesn't matter whose idea it was to make the trade, it doesn't matter who wanted to trade, it doesn't matter who didn't want to trade, because no matter what the final call came from Jon Gruden.  Period.

The fact that people continue to try and argue this point with me is just ludicrous.

There ain’t no Hate in this response:)

We gotta cross our fingers!!! That’s where I’m at .

And I'm with you brother, 100%

I'm just not one of those fans that think just because it's John("Chucky") Gruden and TV star Mayock that we automatically got this in the bag ,quite the contrary, IMO...


Dude were all Raider Fans.  We know nothing is ever in the "Bag".  We all lived through New England years ago and then again in the Super Bowl against the Buc's.

Perhaps you should read some (more) of these threads brother... I'm literally called a hater and ridiculed (to which I give ZERO fucks, lol) for having concerns...

Which suggests to me... that these people have NO concerns... which means they think we got this in the bag...

I know we're all fans... but just because I'm not in the Gruden Cult Club, where he can do no wrong... doesn't mean I'm a not fan...  OR that my concerns aren't worthy of warrant...

Maybe I haven't read enough lately.  What I have seen is people excited that we finally have a coach who has had some success in the league and a respected football guy.  Look at the list of coaches since he left.  It hard not to be excited after the past 16 years of shit since he left.  I think everyone just want's to give him a fair chance.   

You've defended Reggie's first coaching hire saying know one else wanted the job.  Well this time around Mark Davis talked a guy into taking this job that could have had almost any coaching job he wanted over the past 10 years.



#   Name   Term   Regular season   Playoffs   Awards   Reference
GC   W   L   T   Win%   GC   W   L   Win%
Oakland Raiders

12   Jon Gruden[g]   1998–2001   64   38   26   0   .594   4   2   2   .500      [19]
13   Bill Callahan*   2002–2003*   32   15   17   0   .469   3   2   1   .667   AFC Champion (2002)   [5]
14   Norv Turner   2004–2005   32   9   23   0   .281   —   —   —   —      [20]
—   Art Shell ‡*[d]   2006*   16   2   14   0   .125   —   —   —   —      [16]
15   Lane Kiffin*   2007–2008*   20   5   15   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [21]
16   Tom Cable*[e]   2008–2010*   44   17   27   0   .386   —   —   —   —      [22]
17   Hue Jackson   2011   16   8   8   0   .500   —   —   —   —      [23]
18   Dennis Allen*   2012–2014*   36   8   28   0   .222   —   —   —   —      [24]
19   Tony Sparano[f]   2014   12   3   9   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [25]
20   Jack Del Rio   2015–2017   48   25   23   0   .521   1   0   1   .000      [26]
—   Jon Gruden[g]   2018–present   16   4   12   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [19]
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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2019, 02:23:23 PM »



Found this tweet today...

Quote
Scott Winter @Scott_WinterNFL

Regardless of the record, which in his own words he said to be judged by, Reggie left this organization 100% better than when he started. Front office is modernized, Cap space, and contracts give #Raiders fans hope for the future. Plus future draft picks for Mayock and Gruden. https://t.co/zm51sKRL4G

DAMN IT!!! This contradicts everything!!! Big Reg didn't get us those draft picks!! It was over his dead body!! GRU got us those draft picks!!

 o;) :o

Knew you would take the bait... (See... your reply... definition of hater shit, lol)...

He meant that Mayock gets the normalcy of coming into a team with actual draft picks... Hence the period, and not being listed after a comma like the rest...

When RM took the job, we didn't have a 1st. 2nd or 3rd rounder (His first pick was a compensatory pick at the bottom of the 3rd, Tony Bergstrom... Who's started a huge chunk of the last 2-3 season at center for the Redskins...

Nice try tho...

LOL

Yea then he had his first full draft and boy did it turn our franchise around.


2013
Table inside Article
Round   Player   Pos.   College
1   DJ Hayden   CB   Houston
2   Menelik Watson   T   Florida State
3   Sio Moore   LB   Connecticut
4   Tyler Wilson   QB   Arkansas
6a.   Nick Kasa   TE   Colorado
6b.   Latavius Murray   RB   Central Florida
6c.   Mychal Rivera   TE   Tennesee
6d.   Stacy McGee   DT   Oklahoma
7a.   Brice Butler   WR   San Diego State
7b.   David Bass   DE   Missouri Western State

Ok... and your point?  Is RM the only GM in NFL history who had a bad draft?

Mind you, this draft has been repeatedly coined the worst draft class in the last 20 years... The best player from that draft... Deandre Hopkins at #27... You can count the amount of "difference makers" on 1 hand... and that's just the 1st round...

DJ has been a starting Nickel everywhere he's been since here... The top CB from this draft isn't even in the league anymore...

Murray is a very good back, still... (I wouldn't mind bringing him back)...

Stacy McGee is a rotational DT for the Redskins...

Butler plays for the Dolphins, and was a playmaker in Dallas his time there...

SO honestly bro, you're not saying much, in the guy's first ever "full" draft, in a shitty year...  Not sure why you always bring that up... Pull up other teams draft classes from that same year, you'll probably find 1 or 2 who had "success"... and about 20+ who's draft looked exactly like this one...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 02:38:33 PM by varaider »
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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2019, 02:37:00 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?

to answer your question, no I don't know 100%. I just know that's exactly what they did. And Mark is always accountable, he's the owner but when it comes to Personnel moves I tend to think that he would defer to Gruden on all of those matters, don't you?  you don't give a coach a 10-year 100 million dollar contract to micromanage him....

and to your last point, that's exactly what I mean by using common sense. No one knows what's going on behind those closed doors oh, but you can look at all the moves and actions taken and put together a pretty solid opinion. One that shared by 99% of the football world.

Another thing that I think people fail to realize is that we don't have a single person in the building (in their expected positions or title) that knows how to facilitate trades, deal with agents, and experience with actually dealing with other general managers in terms of working out trades and shit like that very that's a scary thing. People tend to defer and talk about all these draft picks, but do either of these guys have any experience on what to do with those draft picks? The answer is no.

all I've been saying this entire time is that Jon Gruden is calling the shots, which ultimately means that he had the final say on any and every move that was made. Not Reggie, not Mark not anyone else but Jon Gruden and his vision for what he wanted as a football team.  it doesn't matter whose idea it was to make the trade, it doesn't matter who wanted to trade, it doesn't matter who didn't want to trade, because no matter what the final call came from Jon Gruden.  Period.

The fact that people continue to try and argue this point with me is just ludicrous.

There ain’t no Hate in this response:)

We gotta cross our fingers!!! That’s where I’m at .

And I'm with you brother, 100%

I'm just not one of those fans that think just because it's John("Chucky") Gruden and TV star Mayock that we automatically got this in the bag ,quite the contrary, IMO...


Dude were all Raider Fans.  We know nothing is ever in the "Bag".  We all lived through New England years ago and then again in the Super Bowl against the Buc's.

Perhaps you should read some (more) of these threads brother... I'm literally called a hater and ridiculed (to which I give ZERO fucks, lol) for having concerns...

Which suggests to me... that these people have NO concerns... which means they think we got this in the bag...

I know we're all fans... but just because I'm not in the Gruden Cult Club, where he can do no wrong... doesn't mean I'm a not fan...  OR that my concerns aren't worthy of warrant...

Maybe I haven't read enough lately.  What I have seen is people excited that we finally have a coach who has had some success in the league and a respected football guy.  Look at the list of coaches since he left.  It hard not to be excited after the past 16 years of shit since he left.  I think everyone just want's to give him a fair chance.   

You've defended Reggie's first coaching hire saying know one else wanted the job.  Well this time around Mark Davis talked a guy into taking this job that could have had almost any coaching job he wanted over the past 10 years.



#   Name   Term   Regular season   Playoffs   Awards   Reference
GC   W   L   T   Win%   GC   W   L   Win%
Oakland Raiders

12   Jon Gruden[g]   1998–2001   64   38   26   0   .594   4   2   2   .500      [19]
13   Bill Callahan*   2002–2003*   32   15   17   0   .469   3   2   1   .667   AFC Champion (2002)   [5]
14   Norv Turner   2004–2005   32   9   23   0   .281   —   —   —   —      [20]
—   Art Shell ‡*[d]   2006*   16   2   14   0   .125   —   —   —   —      [16]
15   Lane Kiffin*   2007–2008*   20   5   15   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [21]
16   Tom Cable*[e]   2008–2010*   44   17   27   0   .386   —   —   —   —      [22]
17   Hue Jackson   2011   16   8   8   0   .500   —   —   —   —      [23]
18   Dennis Allen*   2012–2014*   36   8   28   0   .222   —   —   —   —      [24]
19   Tony Sparano[f]   2014   12   3   9   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [25]
20   Jack Del Rio   2015–2017   48   25   23   0   .521   1   0   1   .000      [26]
—   Jon Gruden[g]   2018–present   16   4   12   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [19]

If you define "success" as 1-2 games over .500... Winning a Super Bowl with someone else's team stacked with HOFs... (against his former team/offense)... and then running the team in the ground and getting fired (after losing to US)... SO be it...

And just because he's the most "successful" coach we've had in 20 years, doesn't mean much, the bar isn't really that high brother... Plus factor in he had ANOTHER team chock with HOFs... and what did we ever win with him?  2 playoff games?

2016 wasn't shit, btw... I loved it, who knows what would have happened (with Reggie's team) had Carr not broken his leg... (No one thinks about that, tho... Hmmmm)...  1 or 2 more wins and JDR would hold that title... Meh...


And I'm giving Gruden a fair chance... I want him to succeed... But he hasn't done much to make it look possible... The team was worse than last year... Whether you guys want to concede to that or not... WORSE... and HE did that... no one else... And let's be real... That rebuild shit only came up once he fell on his face the first 5-6 games...  He had no choice...

What it boils down to... I don't get an erection for "Chucky" like some here do... JUST BECAUSE He's John Gruden... AL traded that man for a REASON... And that has ALWAYS stuck out to me... I don't have Chucky fever... I have, I hope this MF knows what he's doing fever...

Like I said before... the Mayock hire, reminds me of If Trump hired Hannity as his Press Secretary... He watched him on TV and thinks he's "smart"... LOL...  (Far-fertched, I know, but I can't help it, thats what it feels like)...
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nutmg1

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2019, 02:39:35 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?
'

Denver media is jealous of how the Raiders are rebuilding right now.  Mark Schlereth said on Denver Radio yesterday that privately Gruden admitted to him that they are tearing the team down so they can build it the right way.  They have even started giving credit to Jon for trading Mack and Cooper to gain draft capitol and not have to mortgage the future on players who weren't making enough of a difference to get wins.

SO... he gets a pass for LYING to Raider Nation... "Win a Super Bowl for Oakland"... "Here to win now"...

And how do you give credit for draft capitol, when the guys making the picks... One has TERRIBLE personnel experience, dating back over 10 years... The other has ZERO experience as a GM and has never drafted a player in his life... It's easy to make mock drafts, because you aren't held ACCOUNTABLE for 32 teams' success or failure...

And those 2 players, literally propelled both their respective teams to the playoffs... and literally balled out the entire time with their new teams... If Gruden was such a great coach (TBD) he should have been able to do the same thing with those 2 players... Because they CERTAINLY made a difference in winning in Chicago and Dallas... WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT!

Put Mack and Cooper on our team to start the season and the Cowboys and Bears still have far better rosters.

You will not accept that we couldn't win with those guys.

Mack 28-36
Cooper 25-28

I'll admit I hated Reggie after year his second draft and watching Dennis Allen coach year one.  I was done with him from that moment on.

You talk about Gruden like I talked about Reggie from that point on.  I'll freely admit I was a hater. 

I remember Reggie and Dennis Allen coming in and saying the roster they inherited was built to win and we were going to compete for the AFC West.  The next thing you know they trading Carson Palmer and not resigning key players. 

Now that I've had time to reflect on it I understand a new coach and GM can't take over and say the team sucks and its going to take 2 to 3 years before we start winning.  Especially when the team is moving in 2 years.

There is no doubt that Gruden knew before the Mack trade that we needed allot more than Mack could give us for the money he could get else where.  I'm sure he also know that Cooper had the same agent and Cooper is talented enough and has done just enough in the league that he would demand top WR money even though we already have proven we can't win with both of those guys on the roster.

You are right Gruden lied.  You are going to have to get over it. The other thing you need to remember is that when Gruden talks to the media he is not only talking to the fans but the rest of the league.  He would have no leverage if he said. 

"Yea we can't tie up as much money in Mack as he deserves."
"Were going to be trading Cooper because we don't believe he is worth what he can get on the open market"
"We can't win the way we are built right now so everyone on our roster is available for draft picks if anyone is interested."

I know its hard to swallow but its not going to change. 

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nutmg1

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2019, 02:56:10 PM »

“And lastly, not even smart enough to realize that JG had/has final say on everything, meaning at the end of the day he controlled the outcome of every trade, release, signing, pickup, that played into this horrible 4-12 season... And his dick suckers are to proud to admit it, Even though his choice for "GM" literally admitted it on live television...”

Do you know 100% that the shit season might be part of a plan between Mark and Gruden. A plan to completely dump everyone and start from scratch? Minus Carr? I don’t.
Just asking . Is Mark also accountable here?

Again. I knew the second Gruden was hired He Got The Keys to the Car. Not arguing that at all.

You say common sense. But do you really know what goes on behind Vegas Raider closed doors?

to answer your question, no I don't know 100%. I just know that's exactly what they did. And Mark is always accountable, he's the owner but when it comes to Personnel moves I tend to think that he would defer to Gruden on all of those matters, don't you?  you don't give a coach a 10-year 100 million dollar contract to micromanage him....

and to your last point, that's exactly what I mean by using common sense. No one knows what's going on behind those closed doors oh, but you can look at all the moves and actions taken and put together a pretty solid opinion. One that shared by 99% of the football world.

Another thing that I think people fail to realize is that we don't have a single person in the building (in their expected positions or title) that knows how to facilitate trades, deal with agents, and experience with actually dealing with other general managers in terms of working out trades and shit like that very that's a scary thing. People tend to defer and talk about all these draft picks, but do either of these guys have any experience on what to do with those draft picks? The answer is no.

all I've been saying this entire time is that Jon Gruden is calling the shots, which ultimately means that he had the final say on any and every move that was made. Not Reggie, not Mark not anyone else but Jon Gruden and his vision for what he wanted as a football team.  it doesn't matter whose idea it was to make the trade, it doesn't matter who wanted to trade, it doesn't matter who didn't want to trade, because no matter what the final call came from Jon Gruden.  Period.

The fact that people continue to try and argue this point with me is just ludicrous.

There ain’t no Hate in this response:)

We gotta cross our fingers!!! That’s where I’m at .

And I'm with you brother, 100%

I'm just not one of those fans that think just because it's John("Chucky") Gruden and TV star Mayock that we automatically got this in the bag ,quite the contrary, IMO...


Dude were all Raider Fans.  We know nothing is ever in the "Bag".  We all lived through New England years ago and then again in the Super Bowl against the Buc's.

Perhaps you should read some (more) of these threads brother... I'm literally called a hater and ridiculed (to which I give ZERO fucks, lol) for having concerns...

Which suggests to me... that these people have NO concerns... which means they think we got this in the bag...

I know we're all fans... but just because I'm not in the Gruden Cult Club, where he can do no wrong... doesn't mean I'm a not fan...  OR that my concerns aren't worthy of warrant...

Maybe I haven't read enough lately.  What I have seen is people excited that we finally have a coach who has had some success in the league and a respected football guy.  Look at the list of coaches since he left.  It hard not to be excited after the past 16 years of shit since he left.  I think everyone just want's to give him a fair chance.   

You've defended Reggie's first coaching hire saying know one else wanted the job.  Well this time around Mark Davis talked a guy into taking this job that could have had almost any coaching job he wanted over the past 10 years.



#   Name   Term   Regular season   Playoffs   Awards   Reference
GC   W   L   T   Win%   GC   W   L   Win%
Oakland Raiders

12   Jon Gruden[g]   1998–2001   64   38   26   0   .594   4   2   2   .500      [19]
13   Bill Callahan*   2002–2003*   32   15   17   0   .469   3   2   1   .667   AFC Champion (2002)   [5]
14   Norv Turner   2004–2005   32   9   23   0   .281   —   —   —   —      [20]
—   Art Shell ‡*[d]   2006*   16   2   14   0   .125   —   —   —   —      [16]
15   Lane Kiffin*   2007–2008*   20   5   15   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [21]
16   Tom Cable*[e]   2008–2010*   44   17   27   0   .386   —   —   —   —      [22]
17   Hue Jackson   2011   16   8   8   0   .500   —   —   —   —      [23]
18   Dennis Allen*   2012–2014*   36   8   28   0   .222   —   —   —   —      [24]
19   Tony Sparano[f]   2014   12   3   9   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [25]
20   Jack Del Rio   2015–2017   48   25   23   0   .521   1   0   1   .000      [26]
—   Jon Gruden[g]   2018–present   16   4   12   0   .250   —   —   —   —      [19]

If you define "success" as 1-2 games over .500... Winning a Super Bowl with someone else's team stacked with HOFs... (against his former team/offense)... and then running the team in the ground and getting fired (after losing to US)... SO be it...

And just because he's the most "successful" coach we've had in 20 years, doesn't mean much, the bar isn't really that high brother... Plus factor in he had ANOTHER team chock with HOFs... and what did we ever win with him?  2 playoff games?

2016 wasn't shit, btw... I loved it, who knows what would have happened (with Reggie's team) had Carr not broken his leg... (No one thinks about that, tho... Hmmmm)...  1 or 2 more wins and JDR would hold that title... Meh...


And I'm giving Gruden a fair chance... I want him to succeed... But he hasn't done much to make it look possible... The team was worse than last year... Whether you guys want to concede to that or not... WORSE... and HE did that... no one else... And let's be real... That rebuild shit only came up once he fell on his face the first 5-6 games...  He had no choice...

What it boils down to... I don't get an erection for "Chucky" like some here do... JUST BECAUSE He's John Gruden... AL traded that man for a REASON... And that has ALWAYS stuck out to me... I don't have Chucky fever... I have, I hope this MF knows what he's doing fever...

Like I said before... the Mayock hire, reminds me of If Trump hired Hannity as his Press Secretary... He watched him on TV and thinks he's "smart"... LOL...  (Far-fertched, I know, but I can't help it, thats what it feels like)...

Gruden was actually 38 and 26 in his first stent and 1 game away from the SB that I think we would have won.  Would you have considered that Gruden's team?

The fact is Gruden did something with that team the Dungy couldn't do.  Was that Tony Dungy's team or Rich Mckay's team? 

Its well documented that Gruden was traded because Al wasn't getting enough credit for the teams success.  The same thing happened with Marcus Allen.  All was a prick god love him.

I agree by the end of 2016 Carr and the team were rolling and who know's what would have happened if he didn't break his leg.  The Bronco's also won Super Bowl 50 then went 9-7, 5-11, 6-10.  Sometimes a team just gets hot at the right time and plays way above their heads.   

I'm keeping it real.  As soon as Mack was traded I knew we were in 100% rebuild mode and even questioned if Carr was on the block which I still do. 

Please stop talking about your erections and other guys hard on's.  It creeps me out every time you say it.  :)


You know Trump and Hannity are my boys so lets not go there.  I'm not sure what to really think about the Mayock hire except it really doesn't matter.  Gruden is calling the shots either way.  If he feels he can delegate some shit to Mike then I'm all for it.





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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2019, 03:06:54 PM »

Put Mack and Cooper on our team to start the season and the Cowboys and Bears still have far better rosters.
Give us Nagy and/or Marinelli and we'd have a better record...  ;)  (See, works both ways)... A creative OC that knows how to get his playmakers the ball... And a blitzing, violent defense... Go figure...

BUt I disagree... Now THIS YEAR'S ROSTER, that Gruden built, of course... but not last year's roster... With Mack  and Cooper our roster from last year was better than both... You do remember, it took an index card and a Carr fumble out of the endzone (in a game we had won) for the Cowboys to beat us...

You will not accept that we couldn't win with those guys.

Mack 28-36
Cooper 25-28

We DID win, in 2016... and a broken leg fucked it up... and coaching changes and a broken back the next year... fucked it up... Right or wrong?  Or did you forget???

I'll admit I hated Reggie after year his second draft and watching Dennis Allen coach year one.  I was done with him from that moment on.

But you're cool with 4-12... Because "It's Gruden"... Got it... Mind you, we had the same record with DA... 4-12... (during a REAL REBUILD, with no money or draft)... and guess what... both the offense and defense were ranked WAY higher than 2018... Hmmmm... But hey, "It's Chucky"... lol...

You talk about Gruden like I talked about Reggie from that point on.  I'll freely admit I was a hater.

See above comment... And I'm not a hater... Wait.. matter of fact... If hating a 4-12 record, in a season where we were the LAUGHING STOCK of the league, from the Mack trade until our last game... by way of John Gruden running the show from Day 1... then so be it... Yes... I hate losing... and I hate being the laughing stock of the league... But I guess you guys are like pigs in shit, because "Chucky's back"...

I remember Reggie and Dennis Allen coming in and saying the roster they inherited was built to win and we were going to compete for the AFC West.  The next thing you know they trading Carson Palmer and not resigning key players. 

I don't remember that AT ALL... I remember RM saying the goal is to win, period... And I also remember him saying it would be a long process... 4-5 years to be exact...

Now that I've had time to reflect on it I understand a new coach and GM can't take over and say the team sucks and its going to take 2 to 3 years before we start winning.  Especially when the team is moving in 2 years.

RM did just that, without saying we suck... And "Chucky" could have said that.. because he's that "special" to this fan base... People would have gotten it, and just written it off as Gruden the Maverick...

There is no doubt that Gruden knew before the Mack trade that we needed allot more than Mack could give us for the money he could get else where.  I'm sure he also know that Cooper had the same agent and Cooper is talented enough and has done just enough in the league that he would demand top WR money even though we already have proven we can't win with both of those guys on the roster.

SO he can't win with one of the top 2 best defenders in the entire league... and a WR who has top 5-10 potential when actually TREATED like a #1... That doesn't seem odd to you??

Ummm... he spent that money on Jordy Nelson, A bum RT from NYG, Reggie Nelson, Leon Hall, Derrick Johnson, Derek Carrier, Gilchrist, and a bunch of ST bums from Dallas (Except for D. Harris, I like him)...

Oh, and again... we DID win... but a broken leg, terrible coaching change and injuries fucked it up... Stop forgetting that...  ;)

You are right Gruden lied.  You are going to have to get over it. The other thing you need to remember is that when Gruden talks to the media he is not only talking to the fans but the rest of the league.  He would have no leverage if he said. 

I don't have to get over shit, lol... That's the problem now... and why we're so mediocre as an organization, because shit like this is tolerated and considered normal... Like I said... Al Davis traded this man FOR A REASON... And leverage?  What leverage?  LMAO... Everybody (outside of our delusional fanbase) thought the Raiders were going to suck... again... SO... WHAT LEVERAGE?  Lol... And Oakland SUED US...

"Yea we can't tie up as much money in Mack as he deserves."

Mack alone had .5 sack less than our entire defense... He had 2.5 less, last year, than our entire team THIS year... Do the Math... Add up every player on the DL/LB core on the Raiders and tell me if its over 20M... I'll wait, lol (you get the point)

"Were going to be trading Cooper because we don't believe he is worth what he can get on the open market"

The Cooper trade was a no-brainer... But it was more of a concession that Gruden didn't know how to use the kid... period... Because in Dallas... he's balling... Like he did for US... when we figured out how to use him a game or 2 or 3...

"We can't win the way we are built right now so everyone on our roster is available for draft picks if anyone is interested."

After thinking he had a "plan" and falling on his face 0-5... Yeap, that'll do it...

I know its hard to swallow but its not going to change.

You're right THIS... may NOT change... Excuse me for knowing the reality of this scenario... and not having my head in the clouds... say it with me now.... Just because "It's Gruden"...  8)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 03:13:28 PM by varaider »
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varaider

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Re: Mike Mayock confirms Jon Gruden is calling personnel shots
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2019, 03:30:56 PM »

Gruden was actually 38 and 26 in his first stent and 1 game away from the SB that I think we would have won.  Would you have considered that Gruden's team?

SHoulda, coulda, woulda... This may sound fucked up... but even after the tuck rule... He could have coached this team to a victory... Instead they walked down the field on us, TWICE!... with a rookie QB and kicked a FG to win the game... (Didn't Gruden call the timeout, that gave them the opportunity to clear the field?)...

And I consider that AL DAVIS' team... Everyone know's that...  You didn't?

The fact is Gruden did something with that team the Dungy couldn't do.  Was that Tony Dungy's team or Rich Mckay's team?

This is a moot point, even NFL players from the Bucs back then call it Dungy's team... Mind you, Dungy went on to Indy, turned them into a #1 defense and won a Super Bowl... What did Gruden do with the Bucs after that year?  I'll wait... (not really)... 

Its well documented that Gruden was traded because Al wasn't getting enough credit for the teams success.  The same thing happened with Marcus Allen.  All was a prick god love him.

The Marcus Allen thing has NEVER been revealed... Even to this day Allen has no idea why Al hated him... He said this on "A Football Life"... And I'd like to see this "documentation"... because I always thought it was a bunch of he say, she say shit... AL wanted to WIN... But hey... Why can't you guys look at it like the Mack trade, we got 2 first rounders and save a lot of money... Hmmmm... I gues because "It's Gruden".. haha...

I agree by the end of 2016 Carr and the team were rolling and who know's what would have happened if he didn't break his leg.  The Bronco's also won Super Bowl 50 then went 9-7, 5-11, 6-10.  Sometimes a team just gets hot at the right time and plays way above their heads.

No broken leg = a more promising finish... and FAs take notice of that... Probably means Musgrave stays... Musgrave alone, would have won us at least 3 more games in 2017...

I'm keeping it real.  As soon as Mack was traded I knew we were in 100% rebuild mode and even questioned if Carr was on the block which I still do. 

I knew JG was in 100% ego mode... You don't trade the best player (arguably) of a generation... a bonafied HOF who deserves every penny... RM didn't spend the last 3 years manipulating contracts, etc to make room for nothin...

Please stop talking about your erections and other guys hard on's.  It creeps me out every time you say it.  :)

But you just brought it back up... Must not be that creepy... to you... Either way, you get what I was saying...  *shrug*

You know Trump and Hannity are my boys so lets not go there.  I'm not sure what to really think about the Mayock hire except it really doesn't matter.  Gruden is calling the shots either way.  If he feels he can delegate some shit to Mike then I'm all for it.

We can go there, because YOU KNOW exactly what I'm talking about, lol...
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