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Author Topic: It's obvious that Carr needs to go  (Read 3960 times)

ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2019, 09:25:32 AM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense
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Raider 8

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2019, 11:02:45 AM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense

This year's crop isn't great at QB. Maybe Lock from Missouri. I don't think Haskens will be that good as a pro. Next year's QB class has more quality. As much as I don't like Carr's check down Charlie game, he should play out this contract and draft a QB next year, let the rookie sit for a year while Carr plays, then Carr would be a free agent and the young guy can take the reigns
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nutmg1

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2019, 12:11:19 PM »

As long as we struggled after Gannon to get a QB who was even serviceable I'm not ready to give up on Carr.  Its funny when we were 12-4 and converting on 4th down all the time he was mentioned as MVP.  Now that were rebuilding from a shit roster and he has know one around him everyone wants him gone. 

All I can say is be careful what you ask for.  We've seen Carr operate at a very high level.  This team can turn around fast.  If we move to an unproven rookie QB things could stay bad for a long time. 

All of that said listening to Mayock and Gruden this past week it sounds like if someone offers a trade they would probably take it.  There are probably some more first round picks out there for him.  Teams like the Saints and NY Giants will be in the marked the next couple years.

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ghostmech

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2019, 01:02:11 PM »

As long as we struggled after Gannon to get a QB who was even serviceable I'm not ready to give up on Carr.  Its funny when we were 12-4 and converting on 4th down all the time he was mentioned as MVP.  Now that were rebuilding from a shit roster and he has know one around him everyone wants him gone. 

All I can say is be careful what you ask for.  We've seen Carr operate at a very high level.  This team can turn around fast.  If we move to an unproven rookie QB things could stay bad for a long time. 

All of that said listening to Mayock and Gruden this past week it sounds like if someone offers a trade they would probably take it.  There are probably some more first round picks out there for him.  Teams like the Saints and NY Giants will be in the marked the next couple years.

This
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2019, 03:05:08 PM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense

This year's crop isn't great at QB. Maybe Lock from Missouri. I don't think Haskens will be that good as a pro. Next year's QB class has more quality. As much as I don't like Carr's check down Charlie game, he should play out this contract and draft a QB next year, let the rookie sit for a year while Carr plays, then Carr would be a free agent and the young guy can take the reigns
and then we lose him and get nothing.  If he's going to leave he needs to be traded.  Trade him to the giants for their first rounder.  Draft 4 defensive players in the first round
of the  best defensive draft in 25 years.  Build your defense for the future ala Baltimore.  Use a stop gap qb this year.  Draft our qb of the future next year.  If you let carr leave and get nothing in return.  That would be an epic fail.  He's either your guy or he isn't.  If he's not pull then pull the fucking trigger.
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CB

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2019, 04:03:41 PM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense

This year's crop isn't great at QB. Maybe Lock from Missouri. I don't think Haskens will be that good as a pro. Next year's QB class has more quality. As much as I don't like Carr's check down Charlie game, he should play out this contract and draft a QB next year, let the rookie sit for a year while Carr plays, then Carr would be a free agent and the young guy can take the reigns
and then we lose him and get nothing.  If he's going to leave he needs to be traded.  Trade him to the giants for their first rounder.  Draft 4 defensive players in the first round
of the  best defensive draft in 25 years.  Build your defense for the future ala Baltimore.  Use a stop gap qb this year.  Draft our qb of the future next year.  If you let carr leave and get nothing in return.  That would be an epic fail.  He's either your guy or he isn't.  If he's not pull then pull the fucking trigger.

QB is the hardest position in all of sports to fill. Especially if you value quality. You don't just toss one aside because your pissed at him. The only way we should trade Carr is if we are able to definitively upgrade the position without him. You can't guess or hope that the guy you are bringing in is better, you have to know.

And if we draft a QB in this year or next year's draft and he out-performs Carr, then you can happily let him walk or trade him because upgrading at that position is very rarely as simple as just drafting a guy and plugging him in. Just look at our past 35 years as an example.

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805raiderslo

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2019, 06:30:32 PM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense

This year's crop isn't great at QB. Maybe Lock from Missouri. I don't think Haskens will be that good as a pro. Next year's QB class has more quality. As much as I don't like Carr's check down Charlie game, he should play out this contract and draft a QB next year, let the rookie sit for a year while Carr plays, then Carr would be a free agent and the young guy can take the reigns
and then we lose him and get nothing.  If he's going to leave he needs to be traded.  Trade him to the giants for their first rounder.  Draft 4 defensive players in the first round
of the  best defensive draft in 25 years.  Build your defense for the future ala Baltimore.  Use a stop gap qb this year.  Draft our qb of the future next year.  If you let carr leave and get nothing in return.  That would be an epic fail.  He's either your guy or he isn't.  If he's not pull then pull the fucking trigger.

QB is the hardest position in all of sports to fill. Especially if you value quality. You don't just toss one aside because your pissed at him. The only way we should trade Carr is if we are able to definitively upgrade the position without him. You can't guess or hope that the guy you are bringing in is better, you have to know.

And if we draft a QB in this year or next year's draft and he out-performs Carr, then you can happily let him walk or trade him because upgrading at that position is very rarely as simple as just drafting a guy and plugging him in. Just look at our past 35 years as an example.
THIS
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Limb Reaper

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2019, 07:47:13 AM »

Upon examining the list of "starting" QB's in the league, I would assert that right now, Carr is definitely better than

Bortles
Dalton
Tannehill
Keenum
Allen
Darnold
Rosen
Garropolo
Winston
Trubisky
Stafford
Prescott
Jackson
Mariota
Manning

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 07:50:05 AM by Limb Reaper »
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ghostmech

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2019, 09:43:52 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.     
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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2019, 09:55:53 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Mike Mayock is put on a pedastal because he's on TV... All 32 teams have "Mayocks" in their building, most of which are better at what they do, than Mayock has/will ever be...

Example, Head/Top Scouts in the NFL, it's a year round job, some spend months away from their families and homes.  These guys are looking as far down as freshman and some HS kids...

Mayock said himself, his work started when "he got his list"... at a certain time of the year (I can't remember, but its in the presser).  So this assumption that he's anything more (or better) than your everyday Head Scout in an NFL organization is off... That is exactly what he is, a Glorified (by TV) Scout...

Now he must try to learn how to be a GM... My only "pessimism" comes from this being like the Carr/Downing scenario last year, where Gruden is hiring his "friend"... and a figurehead to mask his decisions...

The man (Gruden) said himself, If its a bad move, it's Mayock's, If it's a good move, it's his...   Where there's smoke there's fire, lol...

Mayock was just a "sexy" pick... I said it before, It's like Trump hiring Hannity as his Press Secretary,  ;D ;D ;D

I just hope the shit works out... as long as they cover all areas that need to be covered, we should be fine... Delaney is still there, so we still have half of the Cap sanity from year's past... in terms of numbers at least....
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 12:42:12 PM by varaider »
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Limb Reaper

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2019, 11:44:58 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Again, as a talent evaluator, he's likely very solid.

But there is more to being a GM then finding late round gems.
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Raider 8

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2019, 01:03:13 PM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Mike Mayock is put on a pedastal because he's on TV... All 32 teams have "Mayocks" in their building, most of which are better at what they do, than Mayock has/will ever be...

Example, Head/Top Scouts in the NFL, it's a year round job, some spend months away from their families and homes.  These guys are looking as far down as freshman and some HS kids...

Mayock said himself, his work started when "he got his list"... at a certain time of the year (I can't remember, but its in the presser).  So this assumption that he's anything more (or better) than your everyday Head Scout in an NFL organization is off... That is exactly what he is, a Glorified (by TV) Scout...

Now he must try to learn how to be a GM... My only "pessimism" comes from this being like the Carr/Downing scenario last year, where Gruden is hiring his "friend"... and a figurehead to mask his decisions...

The man (Gruden) said himself, If its a bad move, it's Mayock's, If it's a good move, it's his...   Where there's smoke there's fire, lol...

Mayock was just a "sexy" pick... I said it before, It's like Trump hiring Hannity as his Press Secretary,  ;D ;D ;D

I just hope the shit works out... as long as they cover all areas that need to be covered, we should be fine... Delaney is still there, so we still have half of the Cap sanity from year's past... in terms of numbers at least....

Mayock hasn't even been on the job for a month and you're already talking shit about him. Go figure. Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Raiders.
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CB

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2019, 06:07:59 PM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.
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TIBERIUS

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2019, 09:32:31 PM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

You sure that's the answer for somebody afraid to get hit?
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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2019, 03:53:25 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Mike Mayock is put on a pedastal because he's on TV... All 32 teams have "Mayocks" in their building, most of which are better at what they do, than Mayock has/will ever be...

Example, Head/Top Scouts in the NFL, it's a year round job, some spend months away from their families and homes.  These guys are looking as far down as freshman and some HS kids...

Mayock said himself, his work started when "he got his list"... at a certain time of the year (I can't remember, but its in the presser).  So this assumption that he's anything more (or better) than your everyday Head Scout in an NFL organization is off... That is exactly what he is, a Glorified (by TV) Scout...

Now he must try to learn how to be a GM... My only "pessimism" comes from this being like the Carr/Downing scenario last year, where Gruden is hiring his "friend"... and a figurehead to mask his decisions...

The man (Gruden) said himself, If its a bad move, it's Mayock's, If it's a good move, it's his...   Where there's smoke there's fire, lol...

Mayock was just a "sexy" pick... I said it before, It's like Trump hiring Hannity as his Press Secretary,  ;D ;D ;D

I just hope the shit works out... as long as they cover all areas that need to be covered, we should be fine... Delaney is still there, so we still have half of the Cap sanity from year's past... in terms of numbers at least....

Mayock hasn't even been on the job for a month and you're already talking shit about him. Go figure. Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Raiders.

If putting Mayock in the correct perspective, by explaining JUST what he was/is classifies as "talking shit"... Oh well... Cry me a river...

The guy has ZERO front office experience...  He has never spent a day of his career "preparing" for ONE team... He, himself, even said he didn't have all the answers, had a lot to learn and that he wasn't too keen on the FA side as well...

I don't see anywhere where I was talking shit about the guy, I even said my only pessimism is that it seems like a "friendly" hire, like what happened with Downing/Carr last season... We curbed experience for something "new" and it blew up in our faces...

And don't give me this "anything positive to say" BULLSHIT... After I've spent the last 6 years providing Silver Lining to all you RM haters... Not to long ago I was the Champion of the Glass Half Full Club here... Constantly going back and forth with the Doom & Gloom guys... So cut the nonsense...

What I said was TRUE, just because you don't "like" it, doesn't make it "talking shit"....

I even ended the whole comment on a positive not, can you read?

Quote
I just hope the shit works out... as long as they cover all areas that need to be covered, we should be fine... Delaney is still there, so we still have half of the Cap sanity from year's past... in terms of numbers at least....
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 03:57:38 AM by varaider »
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