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Author Topic: It's obvious that Carr needs to go  (Read 3067 times)

varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2019, 07:00:26 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

THIS...

I'm torn between AJ Brown and N'Keal Harry for that late first round pick... ONE of them should be there, and I hope we get the one who turns out better...

I wouldn't be surprised if we went after Antonio Brown either... I think Gruden is going to try and make a splash... Gerald McCoy might be on our radar too, if the Bucs opt to go younger/cheeper...
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CB

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2019, 09:54:41 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

You sure that's the answer for somebody afraid to get hit?

Hell yeah. Fast guys get open sooner and let Carr get rid of the ball earlier. We probably need to shore up the O-line also, but more speed will help too.

Carr didn't just wake up one morning afraid too get hit. That was learned by some God awful line play, a shitload of sacks and a couple broken bones.
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2019, 11:56:24 AM »

These topics are always fun and I agree that Carr leaves a lot to be desired, but you have to be able to get a better QB to cut your current QB and college kids are no sure thing and good qb's don't become free agents.

Be careful what you wish for.
that's only correct if your goal is winning next year.  Personally next year I roll with a stop gap qb.  Get another high pick and draft a guy

But you can't guarantee a college kid will succeed no matter when you draft him. History is littered with highly rated college QBs that have failed. Start with Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell. You should never get rid of a QB until the next QB is actually practicing with your team. Just how Brett favre was let go once GB knew Aaron Rodgers was good. Or more recently, Alex Smith was traded after KC knew Mahomes could play.

You let Carr go before you have the next guy in house, you may be wishing for Carr to come back
that is all correct.  But unlike tears past I'd venture to say there are more good QBs coming out of college all the time.  Personally I'd out .ore of a premium on good defensive guys at this point.  Having a good defense in today's is much harder than having a good offense

This year's crop isn't great at QB. Maybe Lock from Missouri. I don't think Haskens will be that good as a pro. Next year's QB class has more quality. As much as I don't like Carr's check down Charlie game, he should play out this contract and draft a QB next year, let the rookie sit for a year while Carr plays, then Carr would be a free agent and the young guy can take the reigns
and then we lose him and get nothing.  If he's going to leave he needs to be traded.  Trade him to the giants for their first rounder.  Draft 4 defensive players in the first round
of the  best defensive draft in 25 years.  Build your defense for the future ala Baltimore.  Use a stop gap qb this year.  Draft our qb of the future next year.  If you let carr leave and get nothing in return.  That would be an epic fail.  He's either your guy or he isn't.  If he's not pull then pull the fucking trigger.

QB is the hardest position in all of sports to fill. Especially if you value quality. You don't just toss one aside because your pissed at him. The only way we should trade Carr is if we are able to definitively upgrade the position without him. You can't guess or hope that the guy you are bringing in is better, you have to know.

And if we draft a QB in this year or next year's draft and he out-performs Carr, then you can happily let him walk or trade him because upgrading at that position is very rarely as simple as just drafting a guy and plugging him in. Just look at our past 35 years as an example.
I'm not mad at Carr specifically.  I'm mad the organization for allowing that team to detonate itself. 
First.  That team detonated with Carr at the helm.  That's a huge problem.  Also Carrs injury prone.   Dudes basically one big hit away from a little rascal.  He had a good year.  Despite all the issues our team had.  Cash out.  Take the money and run.  Go get us another qb to build around in the draft.  And finish gutting this piece of shit. 
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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2019, 01:55:00 PM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

You sure that's the answer for somebody afraid to get hit?

Hell yeah. Fast guys get open sooner and let Carr get rid of the ball earlier. We probably need to shore up the O-line also, but more speed will help too.

Carr didn't just wake up one morning afraid too get hit. That was learned by some God awful line play, a shitload of sacks and a couple broken bones.

IMO great route runners get open faster... That's why he had so much chemistry with Crabtree... especially under Musgrave..

I do agree we need speed...

We need speed to take the top off of defense... but I'm not sold on how that would help, considering Carr consistently (almost religiously) under throws wide open guys deep down field... I haven't seen him hit a guy in stride 40-50 yards down field in forever...  It's strange, because they're always talking up his arm strength....

Having a guy like Tyreek Hill would be bittersweet, because I'm not sure Carr can throw it deep enough...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:57:22 PM by varaider »
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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2019, 09:40:06 PM »

Not letting this thread fade away till after the draft.  Carr to the giants!!!  Let's do this
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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2019, 12:53:47 PM »

Quote
PFF OAK Raiders @PFF_Raiders

#Raiders QB Derek Carr attempted a deep pass (20+ yards downfield) on 9.2% of his passes in 2018, the 2nd fewest of 33 qualifying QBs.
 
Carr's 91.7 passer rating on deep targets ranked 15th, and his 49.0% adjusted completion percentage on deep balls ranked 5th.
 
#RaiderNation

8:10 PM - 11 Jan 2019
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2019, 06:55:29 PM »

Quote
PFF OAK Raiders @PFF_Raiders

#Raiders QB Derek Carr attempted a deep pass (20+ yards downfield) on 9.2% of his passes in 2018, the 2nd fewest of 33 qualifying QBs.
 
Carr's 91.7 passer rating on deep targets ranked 15th, and his 49.0% adjusted completion percentage on deep balls ranked 5th.
 
#RaiderNation

8:10 PM - 11 Jan 2019
hahahaha where in those states does it mention his piss poor pass protection.  C'mon man.  Dude almost threw 4000 yards on a team that couldn't pass protect the majority of the year and who the hell was he throwing too Jordy slow ass Nelson?  Oh right his best passing option was a tight  end.. please. 
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RaiderinKorea

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2019, 07:39:30 PM »

Not letting this thread fade away till after the draft.  Carr to the giants!!!  Let's do this

What do you think of this idea, a three team trade. Foles will leave the Eagles and the Eagles will not trade him to the Giants, we work out a package to get Foles, send Carr to the Giants, then we draft a QB when there is a better QB class than this year?
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TIBERIUS

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2019, 08:59:18 PM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

You sure that's the answer for somebody afraid to get hit?

Hell yeah. Fast guys get open sooner and let Carr get rid of the ball earlier. We probably need to shore up the O-line also, but more speed will help too.

Carr didn't just wake up one morning afraid too get hit. That was learned by some God awful line play, a shitload of sacks and a couple broken bones.

Like I say, and you seem to agree. He's afraid to get hit.

Not quite the leader you want in charge. Dude is never going to have a clean pocket all the time.

If we have seen the best of DC......he isn't the answer. Dak made a super star out of Coop. That never happened here. He's had weapons, and a pretty good line since he's been here.

He just hasn't done much with em for a tangible difference. I believe DC is who we have seen thus far.

Does that mean I want him gone now. No. But we sure as hell better have a contingency plan.

Competition seems to bring out the best in players, especially those with a healthy dose of cap on their backs.






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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2019, 02:25:32 AM »

Quote
PFF OAK Raiders @PFF_Raiders

#Raiders QB Derek Carr attempted a deep pass (20+ yards downfield) on 9.2% of his passes in 2018, the 2nd fewest of 33 qualifying QBs.
 
Carr's 91.7 passer rating on deep targets ranked 15th, and his 49.0% adjusted completion percentage on deep balls ranked 5th.
 
#RaiderNation

8:10 PM - 11 Jan 2019
hahahaha where in those states does it mention his piss poor pass protection.  C'mon man.  Dude almost threw 4000 yards on a team that couldn't pass protect the majority of the year and who the hell was he throwing too Jordy slow ass Nelson?  Oh right his best passing option was a tight  end.. please.

Bro... what are you mad at?  lmao...

It was a tweet, stating his deep throw statistics... Relax, lol...
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2019, 08:08:40 AM »

Not letting this thread fade away till after the draft.  Carr to the giants!!!  Let's do this

What do you think of this idea, a three team trade. Foles will leave the Eagles and the Eagles will not trade him to the Giants, we work out a package to get Foles, send Carr to the Giants, then we draft a QB when there is a better QB class than this year?
as long as we got the giants first rounder this year then yes sure.  Foles get the ball out quick.  But he's not going to be as good in our system. Personally I dont care who's under center this year were gonna sick again.  I just want to build out defense
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ElevatorRaidersfanPA

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2019, 08:11:16 AM »

Quote
PFF OAK Raiders @PFF_Raiders

#Raiders QB Derek Carr attempted a deep pass (20+ yards downfield) on 9.2% of his passes in 2018, the 2nd fewest of 33 qualifying QBs.
 
Carr's 91.7 passer rating on deep targets ranked 15th, and his 49.0% adjusted completion percentage on deep balls ranked 5th.
 
#RaiderNation

8:10 PM - 11 Jan 2019
hahahaha where in those states does it mention his piss poor pass protection.  C'mon man.  Dude almost threw 4000 yards on a team that couldn't pass protect the majority of the year and who the hell was he throwing too Jordy slow ass Nelson?  Oh right his best passing option was a tight  end.. please.

Bro... what are you mad at?  lmao...

It was a tweet, stating his deep throw statistics... Relax, lol...
lol sorry I dont tweet so I wouldn't recognize it.  I thought you were breaking my chops.  I just hate half assed stats that only put forward someone's agenda.  They might be correct but it's as if ass lying because s ok someone out there is gonna take it as gospel.  Smh
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CB

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2019, 08:49:10 AM »

If I was the incoming GM for the Raiders, my focus would be defense, defense and more defense. (And obviously, the offensive line.) Carr is good enough to run a top ten passing offense given some decent weapons. If we had a defense that could keep us in games and get the ball back, Carr is solid enough to convert most opportunities into points. I think he'd be a lot better if he didn't feel like it was all on him. Cowherd has been using the analogy of quarterbacks being either trucks or trailers. I think Carr is a trailer. He needs a good team around him in order to really succeed.

Cutting bait on him at this point would be a mistake then, unless you could get one of the guys ahead of him on the list. Teams have won titles with much less talented quarterbacks than DC.

Then Having Mike Mayock as the GM should fit you needs since he was a defensive player when he played and is very good at spotting defensive talent.  Also many of the current NFL administrators/coaches seek out and value his talent scouting council, especially about the players that are down the list and not top tier guys.   

Somebody is going to have to find Carr some weapons (Gruden or Mayock) or its not going matter much how good the defense gets. He needs some WR's with speed. Another TE (assuming Cook walks) and another RB.

You sure that's the answer for somebody afraid to get hit?

Hell yeah. Fast guys get open sooner and let Carr get rid of the ball earlier. We probably need to shore up the O-line also, but more speed will help too.

Carr didn't just wake up one morning afraid too get hit. That was learned by some God awful line play, a shitload of sacks and a couple broken bones.

Like I say, and you seem to agree. He's afraid to get hit.

Not quite the leader you want in charge. Dude is never going to have a clean pocket all the time.

If we have seen the best of DC......he isn't the answer. Dak made a super star out of Coop. That never happened here. He's had weapons, and a pretty good line since he's been here.

He just hasn't done much with em for a tangible difference. I believe DC is who we have seen thus far.

Does that mean I want him gone now. No. But we sure as hell better have a contingency plan.

Competition seems to bring out the best in players, especially those with a healthy dose of cap on their backs.

I think all QB's are afraid to get hit to some degree. And they are all taught that their health is important to the team. Carr has forgotten what a clean pocket looks and feels like. Will he turn into Russell Wilson if he get good protection? Of course not. But if he can move like he did in 2016 and find his open receivers, he will be a top 10 QB in the league.

He was the league's 'Patrick Mahomes' while Mahomes was at Texas Tech. Gruden's #1 priority should be getting Carr back to that level of play. Because that is cheaper than trading him and then using those picks in a QB who may never develop. And that will get this franchise turned around quicker.
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JackTatum

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2019, 09:44:46 AM »

Carr needs to stay. Not even a question, he just needs the weapons.
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varaider

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Re: It's obvious that Carr needs to go
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2019, 11:04:24 AM »

All I'm sayin... It's going on year 6...

Is he supposed to show us something more than he already has?  2016 might have been his peak...

Gruden's offense isn't designed to push the ball down the field... So a repeat of 2016 won't likely happen... Musgrave's offense focused on deeper route concepts and pushing the ball downfield...

Derek Carr is to Raiders... as Matthew Stafford is to Lions...
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