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Author Topic: Would 6-10 be good enough to keep Dennis Allen?  (Read 1299 times)
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« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2012, 12:35:21 AM »

If Allen can get 3 more wins out of these clowns then he should be up for coach of the year.

Look at the Rams...also 3-7. Bradford, Jackson, Amendola on offense. On D they have James Laurinaitis, Chris Long and Cortland Finnegan. Some decent pieces.

But the rest of the team is a big question mark. They've looked good in some games, awful in others.

So is Jeff Fisher - who most everyone here would agree is a great head coach - suddenly an idiot, or do they just not have the horses?

Rams don't have the horses, but they also aren't getting blown out by 30+ points every week. I can stand the losses in a "rebuilding" season, what I can't stand is the lack of fire/motivation the team has. Jeff Fisher has been able to get the most out of his ragtag bunch, DA not so much.
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« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2012, 09:19:42 AM »

If Allen can get 3 more wins out of these clowns then he should be up for coach of the year.

Look at the Rams...also 3-7. Bradford, Jackson, Amendola on offense. On D they have James Laurinaitis, Chris Long and Cortland Finnegan. Some decent pieces.

But the rest of the team is a big question mark. They've looked good in some games, awful in others.

So is Jeff Fisher - who most everyone here would agree is a great head coach - suddenly an idiot, or do they just not have the horses?

Rams don't have the horses, but they also aren't getting blown out by 30+ points every week. I can stand the losses in a "rebuilding" season, what I can't stand is the lack of fire/motivation the team has. Jeff Fisher has been able to get the most out of his ragtag bunch, DA not so much.

Fisher has half the talent the Raiders do. They didn't sniff .500 for the last 6 plus seasons. Their record over the previous 4 seasons was like 10-64 or something crazy like that. And they've got far fewer draft picks over the last several years who are still on the roster than we have.

Fisher at least has his team playing hard and competing in just about every game. He won a game early in the season by 'benching' Steven Jackson early in the 2nd quarter. They said he was injured, but everybody knew he was out so Fisher could send a message to the team. Jackson wasn't on any injury report and the Rams bought what Fisher was selling.

Nobody on the Raiders has bought into Allen or his staff.
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« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2012, 09:37:13 AM »

Roster is void of talent and Dennis Allen shouldn't be judged on the results of these incompetent idiots on this team. Dennis Allen doesn't catch, throw, or tackle, and neither do 85% of this roster. If players can't execute a block or make a tackle, the coach can't do anything about that.

Agree 100% with this part of your post.

I still say this is BS. We have enough talent to be a .500 football team. That puts us in the playoff picture. Pull an upset or two and you're in. Beat who you're supposed to beat and then beat one or two that are better than you are.

Yesterday, everybody in the stadium knows that Graham is the target when the Saints get in the red zone. Except of course our two linebackers who both try to cover the fullback in the flat. The one guy on the field we know isn't getting the football.

Now, is that a lack of talent because they failed to cover Graham or is it a lack of coaching because they didn't have it drilled into their heads that Graham has to be taken away?


this team absolutely does not have the talent to be .500 and even if we did, that's not going to put us anywhere near the playoffs.  right now, the wild card spots are 6-4.

we've beat 3 terrible teams for our wins.  kc is the worst team in the league.  the jags are terrible and they took us to overtime, at home, with their backup qb.  and don't tell me the steelers are any good, they've got wins against kc (and only because of awful officiating), the jets, and phili, with a few other marginal teams.

the fact is that with the complete lack of talent on the field, a rookie head coach, and two more years of cap hell, you should think about lowering your expectations or you're going to be extremely disappointed.

We were .500 the past two seasons and both years, we were playing for a playoff spot on the final weekend of the season. In the AFC, if you're around .500 going into the last weekend, you'll be in the hunt. Nobody is running and hiding from the pack.

My expectations were that we would be right around .500 like we had been the last two years. I was worried that we had shed talent in favor of cap, but felt that our coaching would be better and we'd get more out of our players.

Our O-line would be able to open holes due to the scheme and an established running game and Palmer's full offseason would make our passing game better than it had been in years.

Our defense was being coached by some wunderkind who had a playbook chock full of exotic blitzes and coverages that NFL OC's had never seen and would be helpless against (ok, sorry, I'll put away the sarcasm sign). Well at least he was young and energetic and really smart so he'd be able to make up for the lack of talent in the secondary.

OK, so are you buying it? Neither did the players and they're the only ones that mattered.

I don't lower my expectations. I expect my team to raise theirs.
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« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2012, 11:27:04 AM »



Fisher has half the talent the Raiders do. They didn't sniff .500 for the last 6 plus seasons. Their record over the previous 4 seasons was like 10-64 or something crazy like that. And they've got far fewer draft picks over the last several years who are still on the roster than we have.

Fisher at least has his team playing hard and competing in just about every game. He won a game early in the season by 'benching' Steven Jackson early in the 2nd quarter. They said he was injured, but everybody knew he was out so Fisher could send a message to the team. Jackson wasn't on any injury report and the Rams bought what Fisher was selling.

Nobody on the Raiders has bought into Allen or his staff.

You need to forget the last two 8-8 seasons. I believe that there are something like 21 new players on the roster? If you keep pretending that this team is the same one we had last season, or in 2010, then you'll continue to be disappointed.

And where do you see all this "talent"? Perhaps you're confusing talent with potential. If these guys were really as talented as you say, they'd be making more plays. At some point you have to look at the results and say "this is what we are".

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« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2012, 12:12:49 PM »



Fisher has half the talent the Raiders do. They didn't sniff .500 for the last 6 plus seasons. Their record over the previous 4 seasons was like 10-64 or something crazy like that. And they've got far fewer draft picks over the last several years who are still on the roster than we have.

Fisher at least has his team playing hard and competing in just about every game. He won a game early in the season by 'benching' Steven Jackson early in the 2nd quarter. They said he was injured, but everybody knew he was out so Fisher could send a message to the team. Jackson wasn't on any injury report and the Rams bought what Fisher was selling.

Nobody on the Raiders has bought into Allen or his staff.

You need to forget the last two 8-8 seasons. I believe that there are something like 21 new players on the roster? If you keep pretending that this team is the same one we had last season, or in 2010, then you'll continue to be disappointed.

And where do you see all this "talent"? Perhaps you're confusing talent with potential. If these guys were really as talented as you say, they'd be making more plays. At some point you have to look at the results and say "this is what we are".



Listen, I don't want everybody to think that we're an extremely talented football team. But I also think you're kidding yourself if you believe that Reggie and DA inherited a bunch of bare cupboards.

The sentiment around here is that they're making do with what they got and are buying time until they can rebuild this team to their liking. I'm telling you that they're not making do, they're tanking. They've taken what was an average football team and made it non-competitive.

Some people are ok with that. 'Let Reggie and DA bring in their own guys and everything will be fine'. I can't say that I've seen anything that gives me confidence that we'll be a better football team when that happens. On the contrary, I think DA has done less with this current team than Hugh or the Cable guy could have. Not that I'm pining for either one, but I expected DA to be an upgrade, but so far he's been the opposite.

Most coaches in the NFL take over a bad situation. The great ones excel with the players they inherit and dominate when they get the players they covet. The good ones are able to keep their heads above water and hang on until reinforcements arrive. The bad ones slowly go down the drain even as they get the guys who should be able to help. Right now, DA is circling.
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« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2012, 03:22:50 PM »

As someone once said, "If GM`s and coaches let the fans dictate what they should do, then they will soon be sitting with the fans"

Don`t think DA is going anywhere soon as he shouldn`t. Not saying he is a great coach or not because it is way too soon. Changes may occur for certain position coaches and maybe even in the coordinator spot(s). But to fire a HC after 1 year is insane........as we have been proving for over a decade now.
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« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2012, 08:01:00 PM »

Say what you want about ST. Louis. They have made it a priority to build their D through the draft and sprinkle in a FA or 2. And it has shown ranked 13 in total D. That's why they don't get blown out very often.

How many of our guys currently starting on D is worth a starting job next season?

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. You want to build a winning organization, you build it through the draft from both lines out.

Trading away our picks and giving out bloated contracts have come home to roost. Time to pay the bill.


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« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2012, 08:01:08 PM »

Keeping an incompetant coach for one year is also insane!!
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« Reply #68 on: November 21, 2012, 05:55:07 PM »

Say what you want about ST. Louis. They have made it a priority to build their D through the draft and sprinkle in a FA or 2. And it has shown ranked 13 in total D. That's why they don't get blown out very often.

How many of our guys currently starting on D is worth a starting job next season?

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. You want to build a winning organization, you build it through the draft from both lines out.

Trading away our picks and giving out bloated contracts have come home to roost. Time to pay the bill.




They've had their problems with the D as well. Last year, they drafted Griffin as a luxury pick with the 11th (maybe earlier) pick overall that would have made Al Davis proud. He was a pass rush specialist who didn't play the year before in college due to disciplinary reasons. They could have gone safe, but drafted a guy who would only be on the field for 15-20 snaps a game. This year they gambled again on Jinoris Jenkins who was kicked out of two schools for marijuana use. He's paying off, but his leash is short and I'm betting he won't have a long NFL career.

The Rams biggest problem has been that they can't give Bradford any help. They've drafted O-linemen who didn't pan out. Ignored the RB and WR positions when they desperately needed some youthful playmakers. They tried building their lines but the picks just never panned out.

I think as a building philosophy, you do want to build the lines and work your way out, but I'd draft best possible player in the draft and fill in the holes through FA. Too many teams (like Raider fans don't know about this) reach for guys because of need and leave a talented player for the teams after them.
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« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2012, 12:26:59 PM »

Roster is void of talent and Dennis Allen shouldn't be judged on the results of these incompetent idiots on this team. Dennis Allen doesn't catch, throw, or tackle, and neither do 85% of this roster. If players can't execute a block or make a tackle, the coach can't do anything about that.

Agree 100% with this part of your post.

I still say this is BS. We have enough talent to be a .500 football team. That puts us in the playoff picture. Pull an upset or two and you're in. Beat who you're supposed to beat and then beat one or two that are better than you are.

Yesterday, everybody in the stadium knows that Graham is the target when the Saints get in the red zone. Except of course our two linebackers who both try to cover the fullback in the flat. The one guy on the field we know isn't getting the football.

Now, is that a lack of talent because they failed to cover Graham or is it a lack of coaching because they didn't have it drilled into their heads that Graham has to be taken away?


Do you really think Allen and Tarver told two guys to cover the fullback and just leave graham open. That's crazy. It's lack of execution. Talent isn't only physical, it's mental too. And we lack it. These players have pre snap reads and post snap reads and a lot to process. And in that process they get confused and do the wrong thing. I'm sure these coaches have drilled it in, but half these guys lack the mental capacity to do it under game pressure. We've drafted atheletes in the past, we need football players. Guys who process things and do thier jobs. On that play we had two guys doing the same job and nobody doing the other job, covering graham. That's on the players. They don't execute the plays called.

IMO, we lack mental talent a lot more than physical talent. We have guys that can make plays physically, they don't make plays because they don't have a high enough football IQ.

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« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2012, 12:51:45 PM »

Keeping an incompetant coach for one year is also insane!!
DA may or not be incompetent but it is way too early to tell.....that is all I`m saying. There are many HOF coaches that would`t be there today if armchair GM`s like many here would`ve fired them based on unsuccessful first or 2nd seasons.
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« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2012, 12:50:47 PM »

Roster is void of talent and Dennis Allen shouldn't be judged on the results of these incompetent idiots on this team. Dennis Allen doesn't catch, throw, or tackle, and neither do 85% of this roster. If players can't execute a block or make a tackle, the coach can't do anything about that.

Agree 100% with this part of your post.

I still say this is BS. We have enough talent to be a .500 football team. That puts us in the playoff picture. Pull an upset or two and you're in. Beat who you're supposed to beat and then beat one or two that are better than you are.

Yesterday, everybody in the stadium knows that Graham is the target when the Saints get in the red zone. Except of course our two linebackers who both try to cover the fullback in the flat. The one guy on the field we know isn't getting the football.

Now, is that a lack of talent because they failed to cover Graham or is it a lack of coaching because they didn't have it drilled into their heads that Graham has to be taken away?


Do you really think Allen and Tarver told two guys to cover the fullback and just leave graham open. That's crazy. It's lack of execution. Talent isn't only physical, it's mental too. And we lack it. These players have pre snap reads and post snap reads and a lot to process. And in that process they get confused and do the wrong thing. I'm sure these coaches have drilled it in, but half these guys lack the mental capacity to do it under game pressure. We've drafted atheletes in the past, we need football players. Guys who process things and do thier jobs. On that play we had two guys doing the same job and nobody doing the other job, covering graham. That's on the players. They don't execute the plays called.

IMO, we lack mental talent a lot more than physical talent. We have guys that can make plays physically, they don't make plays because they don't have a high enough football IQ.



It's still coaching. Finding a way to get inside your players' heads so when the pressure's on they make the right decision. Know your opponent and their tendencies. There's no way that the Raiders defense hadn't seen that play run in film rooms a couple dozen times. A good coach makes sure his players will at least be in a position to make the play. A bad one goes through the motions and so do his players.
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« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2012, 01:52:42 PM »

I'm willing to give Allen a few years.  McKenzie came from the Packer organization where they built a team through the draft.  With us picking on the 2nd and now 3rd days of the draft only there is no way we can do that. Get rid of all the crap we have on the team now, even trade away some of the players that have value for more picks and in a couple of years we will be back.  Now, the 2-3 years it will take to do this will suck and everyone will still be calling for Allen's job but I'm willing to sacrifice 2-3 more years if we end up on top and fighting for a Super Bowl berth for the next 6-7 years afterward.
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« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2012, 03:53:14 PM »



It's still coaching. Finding a way to get inside your players' heads so when the pressure's on they make the right decision. Know your opponent and their tendencies. There's no way that the Raiders defense hadn't seen that play run in film rooms a couple dozen times. A good coach makes sure his players will at least be in a position to make the play. A bad one goes through the motions and so do his players.


So what's your solution? Fire yet another head coach?

Even if you're right and it's 100 percent on DA, we still need to wait it out. Say we had your ideal coach - how many wins could we possibly get with these players? How far could they go in the playoffs before running into a buzz saw like New England or Denver?

We need better players, it's just that simple.
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« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2012, 05:34:40 PM »

Roster is void of talent and Dennis Allen shouldn't be judged on the results of these incompetent idiots on this team. Dennis Allen doesn't catch, throw, or tackle, and neither do 85% of this roster. If players can't execute a block or make a tackle, the coach can't do anything about that.

Agree 100% with this part of your post.

I still say this is BS. We have enough talent to be a .500 football team. That puts us in the playoff picture. Pull an upset or two and you're in. Beat who you're supposed to beat and then beat one or two that are better than you are.

Yesterday, everybody in the stadium knows that Graham is the target when the Saints get in the red zone. Except of course our two linebackers who both try to cover the fullback in the flat. The one guy on the field we know isn't getting the football.

Now, is that a lack of talent because they failed to cover Graham or is it a lack of coaching because they didn't have it drilled into their heads that Graham has to be taken away?


Do you really think Allen and Tarver told two guys to cover the fullback and just leave graham open. That's crazy. It's lack of execution. Talent isn't only physical, it's mental too. And we lack it. These players have pre snap reads and post snap reads and a lot to process. And in that process they get confused and do the wrong thing. I'm sure these coaches have drilled it in, but half these guys lack the mental capacity to do it under game pressure. We've drafted atheletes in the past, we need football players. Guys who process things and do thier jobs. On that play we had two guys doing the same job and nobody doing the other job, covering graham. That's on the players. They don't execute the plays called.

IMO, we lack mental talent a lot more than physical talent. We have guys that can make plays physically, they don't make plays because they don't have a high enough football IQ.



It's still coaching. Finding a way to get inside your players' heads so when the pressure's on they make the right decision. Know your opponent and their tendencies. There's no way that the Raiders defense hadn't seen that play run in film rooms a couple dozen times. A good coach makes sure his players will at least be in a position to make the play. A bad one goes through the motions and so do his players.


You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. DA can't go on the field and walk the guy to his spot and remind him of his job. You said it yourself, they saw that play a dozen times in the film room. In that case they shouldn't even need a coach, it's common sense, yet two guys went to the fullback and one of them wasn't suppose to. One was suppose to go with graham. It's the players fault.

There's a lot of things that go on in a football game and none of those things are rocket science. When you break it down it's all pretty simple. Players need to block, tackle, cover, etc. Our players miss blocks, miss tackles, get beat in coverage and we lose. Simple. Coaching matters, but not this much. Coaching doesn't change the 55 points the ravens scored into 21 or the 38 the saints scored into 14.

Matt giordano can't cover and misses tackles, Mcclain can't get to the ball carrier because he gets blocked, Seymour, Kelly, and Shaunessy can't win there one on one battles and get blocked by the other teams lineman, Phillip Adams can't cover the other teams receiver. All the coaching in the world isn't going to change these situations.

Sorry man, we just don't have any playmakers right now, we don't have a calvin or andre johnson, no ed reed, no adrian peterson,  we don't have a brees, manning, or brady. no revis or woodson.

We don't have one star on our team. Our best players are the kickers, janikowski and lechler.
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