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Messages - Limb Reaper

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Raider Gridiron / Re: Screw it...
« on: March 21, 2019, 11:52:06 AM »
I just placed a deposit for psl/season tickets for Vegas.

It’s a 4-5 hour drive but screw it. I’m going!

I’ve waited all my life for the Raiders to build a new home and I’m going to be a part of it dammit.

Maybe the wife won’t hate me when she finds out I’m buying her a seat as well..

Screw it...I’m in

Have you looked at the cost of PSL's?

My friend and I (we both live in Phoenix) were going to do the same thing and then we saw that the PSL's were like 15k per ticket for the cheap seats.

I hate analytics with a passion! It’s why the Dodgers can’t win a World Series. Different rant for a different thread.

Mack gone will always be an “if only” thorn in my side. Yes let it go, yes it was the right big picture move, and yes it still stings.

I agree. Pure analytics removes all emotion from the process, which can be a good thing. But then there's the "gut" aspect that says, trading a likely HOF'er  cannot be a "smart" thing to do.

Analytics would have you divorce your wife after she put on 15 pounds and maxed out the credit card.

Raider Gridiron / Re: Tyrell Williams signing with Raiders
« on: March 15, 2019, 11:06:39 AM »
He's got to do better than what he's been doing. 700 yards by a receiver is pretty average. The good receivers are doubling that and more. I'm not saying he can't do that but he hasn't been great so far and that's why the chargers drafted Mike Williams last year.

He was doing that as maybe the third option at best behind Allen and whatever tight end Rivers was using as a pacifier. He fights for the ball in traffic and has torched us more than a few times.
Just because we sign a guy doesn't mean I'm not going to be realistic about his past production. If the broncos or chiefs signed him and we looked at his numbers, would everybody be saying "wow, broncos got a really good receiver" or would it be no big deal.

Hard to say. He was with a division rival already. I get that eleven mil per is high, but I think that's just the going rate. We'll ad a few cheaper pieces around the two main guys and have a solid corps. There is no denying that defenses will need to account for him or risk giving up a big play. Whether he is worth the money won't be known until he gets on the field.

Like I said in each of my posts, hopefully he's just coming into his prime and he puts up great numbers for us, but he has been average in his career so far.

His production seems average when you look at raw numbers, but as a role-player, he was an important cog for them. His YPC is outstanding. When Allen got hurt in 2016, he grabbed 69 catches for almost 1100 yards and seven TD's. He also has never missed a game due to injury, but now I'm pretty sure I just jinxed him.

It's still baffling to me that we continue to ignore the linebacker position. A handful of solid dogs were up for grabs and we did not show the slightest interest. (Mosely, Barr, Z. Smith etc.).

Raider Gridiron / Tyrell Williams signing with Raiders
« on: March 13, 2019, 01:52:45 PM »
The Oakland Raiders are expected to sign free-agent wide receiver Tyrell Williams, per Adam Schefter of ESPN.

Williams spent the first four years of his NFL career with the Los Angeles Chargers.

The 27-year-old receiver's best season came in 2016 when the Chargers' No. 1 receiver, Keenan Allen, went down with a torn ACL. In that season, Williams caught 69 balls for 1,059 yards and seven touchdowns—showing what he can do as a No. 1.

Following the 2018 season, Williams told Eric D. Williams that he saw himself as a No. 1 receiver.

With the Oakland Raiders, Williams will act as a No. 2 receiver behind Antonio Brown. The Raiders sent third- and fifth-round picks to the Steelers for Brown last week and agreed to a four-year contract with offensive tackle Trent Brown on Monday, per Schefter.

This is a nice piece to add. Made even better by swiping him from a rival.

Raider Gridiron / Re: Raiders to trade OG Kelechi Osemele to Jets
« on: March 11, 2019, 04:11:10 PM »
The jets got  Osemele....and our 6 round pick?

We receive a fifth?

Applauding the fact that we got anything for a player everyone knew was likely to be cut outright.

I feel a lot better about this acquisition knowing that we got him for very little. This almost makes up for the Bryant trade.

And you calling it speculation, is speculation itself, because... You don't know anymore than I do...
I believe that’s conjecture.

Do it... Then you'll be much happier... Or would you?  #Speculation
He can be taught!
I know, because they were... If it was a "really wanted there man" type of deal, why didn't they trade up to #1 and get him... Maybe because they were "lucky" that he fell to where they could actually >>AFFORD<< to trade up and get him... Hmmm...
You like to to belabor this point. All I’m saying is that the Chiefs were decisive and saw something in Mahomes that compelled them to trade up and get him. He was kind of a freak show yes and was being discussed as a first round prospect. You keep trying to convince me that it was “luck”. I don’t agree. The Chiefs recent drafts have produced more quality players than ours have. I base this on a comparison of their results and our results. More Pro Bowlers, more wins, more division titles, more playoff appearances…your gun has blanks.
Watkins went #4, Evans went #7... Close enough.
Okay, you might be right. I’m just going from memory here.
Speculation, he was drafted at #5
No, look at the buzz around that time. Mack was ranked one or two on most prospect lists. Mayock, our current GM,  had him ranked number one over Clowney.
Mack is a once in a generation type of player... A future HOF...
It sounds like you’re agreeing with me, so I’ll leave it at that. Bear in mind that four teams passed on him. Donald looks even better, frankly. And he went 13th.

Yea, I'm the "only" person that "cares" if we get a true #1 CB,
Not what I said. You’re the only person who cares about his #8 ranking on some esoteric site for stat junkies.
How about letting them develop... Seems to be working for Conley...
I’m sick to death of “let them develop”. They never fucking develop! I want a winning football team.
I was talking about his BUILD (size, body type)... Get it right..
Oh, sorry. Thanks for clarifying.
Alex Smith plays for the Redskins... But if you think Chad Henne can lead them to a Super Bowl, So be it.... I think you're drunk
Seriously dude?
FACTS... You know those pesky things that you so choose to ignore when they don't support your narrative
All that stuff you’re saying about the front office? Who gives a fuck? They are all tied to our performance, same as the players. You can’t pin it ALL on those guys while completely absolving the players. We win AS A TEAM. We lose the same way. Plenty of blame to go around.
We had 7 in 2016... and traded/released our top 4 (yes, four) sack producers all in the same season
LMAO…you’re telling me this WHY? So we let go of four dudes who weren’t getting it done. It’s not like we cut the Purple People Eaters. For fuck’s sake…
Patriots roster wasn't "full of talent"... never really has been (The Patriot Way and all)... But consistent, competent coaching has made them successful
Wow…such insight. I think MENSA has a few openings…

My point is the Chiefs have had a better roster since Carr came into the league.  I think you can take the plunge and say he would have won more games if he was the QB on the Chiefs. 

I agree he plays it save.  He's had too. 

Mahomes has also had wide open receivers running down the field.  That's not something Carr's see a bunch of.

I agree with that point about the Chiefs roster. I think talent-wise, Carr is better than Alex Smith. So it seems plausible.

Mahomes down field options have a lot to do with Reid and his scheme. But super fast, agile receivers certainly don't hurt. Hill is EXACTLY the type of receiver Al Davis used to covet. Sad that the Chiefs got him.

Would Carr have been a more successful QB playing for the Chiefs the past 2 seasons with their roster and coaches?   

Would the Raiders have been better the last 2 seasons with Hill, Hunt, Kelsey and Ford on our Roster even with our coaches?  Did these players need time to develop before they mad a huge impact?

Assumptions or Facts?

I guess we'll never know for sure. But Carr plays safe. Safe doesn't really fit Reid's M.O. Hill, Hunt & Kelsey? I think those are upgrades, but maybe on THIS team they would not have been as productive.

Yeap, spent a 1st and 3rd for a QB who would have been there...
Maybe you should buy another product if you're so disappointed... Right?  IJS...
But the Chiefs weren't lucky that Mahomes fell to #10... SOOOOO they could trade up and get him... Ummm... Ok...
That’s right.
Evans/Watkins/OBJ were arguably the best WRs in the draft... Similar to the whole Kevin White/Amari Cooper draft.  There were many different opinions on who was actually the best...
They weren’t consensus top five picks, and that’s where we were picking.
Mack came from a small school, vs small talent, so that always loomed over him... But we still took him...
Mack was a stud and was getting consideration at number one overall.
None of them are Defensive Ends, other than Key... SO to compare him with the likes of Conley or Hurst, doesn't make sense
They are being compared based on their level of play as rookies. Mack was head and shoulders better than any of the 2017 picks.
All I know is that Conley was the 8th best cover CB in the league, in only his 2nd year... and his 2017 appearances graded out just as high... Give credit where credit is due...
And you’re the only person in the world that cares. I don’t lend a lot of credence to these stats – they can be misleading. And I refuse to “give him credit” for doing his fucking job.
Wait, but your reasoning revolves around the 2017 draft class, after all, that's what this thread is about, right?
For the umpteenth time, NO. I’m not blaming anything on anyone. I’m saying that if these players were as good as YOU say they are, we’d have more to show for it.
Ummmm, they're ROOKIES... WTF are you supposed to say about a 3rd round pick?
Say whatever you want. I’m not here to tell you what to say. I will say that I believe you are over-estimating Key. He still needs a LOT of work.
Cmon bro... The point of a draft is to find players an DEVELOP THEM INTO GOOD SOLID STARTERS...  Your logic seems to assume that every pick should be a Patrick Mahomes... wtf, lol...
Nope. I’m just advocating a wait and see approach. Meanwhile, you’ve already compared Key to Aldon Smith, a guy who had 34 sacks and five forced fumbles his first two years in the league.
HE was an impact player. Key barely made the needle jump.
No... I stated facts... you just don't wan to acknowledge them, because they don't fit your opinion/narrative... I get it...
What you said was:
“Like I said, without them taking a risk on a pregnant woman beater, TWO woman beaters to be exact (Hunt)... Mahomes would have HALF the success he had last season”
This is NOT fact, it’s speculation. There is no way for you to know what would have happened had they not “taken a risk on two women beaters”.
SO if the Chiefs lost Mahomes, then what? IT WILL KILL THEM... Thank you, you proved my point...  KC is Mahomes... period...
More speculation. You don’t know this for certain. However, I can point to the FACT that they were very successful with Alex Smith. Mahomes just took them to the next level.

You point at the roster, I point at having the same Coach/OC for ALL of those years, while we had 4 HCs, 5OCs, and 4DCs... They have a QB, the fastest WR in the league, and a very Good TE... Other than that, their roster is just as shitty as ours... We, on the otherhand, traded away our fastest (best) WR and Kelce had 50 more targets than Cook... and our QB was working in his 5th offensive scheme in his 5 year career.... go figure...
Excuses, excuses…

Only one whining is you, lol... And sucking off KC, a team that hasn't won shit in 60+ years, lmao...
See? This is why you’ve been elected the village asshole. I never said YOU were whining. Kansas City’s success should piss all of us off. Yet you think OUR current roster is GREAT. According to you, we’re just a player or two away.
Chiefs have an awesome Quarterback, that's why they are good, period... And yet, they've choked, every single year they've made the playoffs, for almost 60 years... They went 23 years without even winning a playoff game, until 2-3 years ago...
Um…the Chiefs had five Pro Bowlers besides Mahomes and 52 sacks as a team.
WHo said that, ever?
It was rhetorical. Why do you assume that every statement is a direct affront to your manhood?
Again... 4HCs, 5OCs, 4DCs... ONe day you'll understand that consistency in coaching MEANS SOMETHING... Look at the majority of the Recent Super Bowl Champions... You shouldn't have to look any further...
Sure it does. AND, our roster also sucks.
But call it what you want... I might just start calling you a Chiefs fan (joke) lol...
Whatever makes you happy…

Ummmm.. you said this organization hadn't put together one good team/season the last 6 years... You were wrong...

I never said that. Yes, I am aware that we won 12 games just a couple years ago.

And try to jusitfy it by saying it was luck, a call here or there, lol.. Stop it bro... Give credit where credit is due... We had one of the most explosive offenses in the league that year, wtf does that have to do with luck and calls.

It had a LOT to do with some 4th down conversions going our way and a somewhat favorable schedule. Yes, we were a decent team that year. But in the end, Carr got hurt and we fell apart.

Meanwhile the Eagles WON a Super Bowl with a backup QB. I don't really care for excuses. Next man up. The Chiefs lost Hunt and it might have cost them a Super Bowl bid. Every team has injuries and adversity.

Similar to your daddy Chiefs and what they did last year, they just lucked up and got the #1 seed because the Pats lost to the Bills... Yay for them... Choked in the playoffs PER USUAL...


And there's no need for crotch shots. I am capable of being objective. That doesn't make me a Chiefs fan.

You are what your record says you are... Mind you, we lost 7 games in 2015 by 1 socre or less... So you could see the team improving, just couldn't finish.

And how many did we WIN in 2016 by the same margin?

In 2016... they started finishing, Lost Carr week 15, Penn week 17, playoffs shot... 2017, Carr broke his back, and they handed the offense over to a rookie OC with literally no playcalling experience, in life... 2018, Gruden came in and blew it all to hell... If you can't understand that timeline of events... and only see it as a aberration, not my fault, lol... [/size][/i]

Maybe you don't know what the word "aberration" means. Because I see a consistent timeline of events with sub-500 records and no playoffs.

Nice deflection (kinda)...  You all constantly avoid that point like the plague... You are what your record says you are... (Only if its a losing record, supporting your we suck narrative) but never give credit where credit is due... "aberration"...

Trust me, I gave ALL the credit that was due. If you are satisfied with 12-4 and a wildcard loss, then I'm happy for you.

Ok... so what is your point?  You've repeatedly said we suck because our drafts suck... and here you're saying the drafts and talent don't matter because we suck... I'm confused brother... Or either you need to pick a side of your argument... and stick with it...

That is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying that you cannot assess the players on the basis of individual merit. None of them really stood out. There were a few flashes, sure. Other than that, we have to evaluate them in terms of their contribution to the product on the field.

The product on the field was doo doo.

Conley locked down his side of the field... How is that not contributing?  Now we just need another CB to pair with him... You, seem to think Conley is trash, because Melvin was trash, or because Gruden started Reggie Nelson, or benched Joseph.... Or traded Mack (pass rush)...

I didn't say he didn't contribute. I'm saying that what he contributed to ended up as  4 wins.

Yes, the team as a whole was doo-doo... who the hell said it wasn't?  But you can just blow off the GOOD players, and say they were shit, or their draft class was shit... that's crazy...

What is a team if not a collection of players? The players are what the results SAY they are. Right now, the results are not flattering.

The good players are who you BUILD with... How the fuck are YOU going to do that if you think they are all trash.... and don't recognize the good in the good ones?  That's where we're disconnecting... I think we're on the same page on just about everything else...

Well, for starters, my personal opinion about our players has ZERO influence on anything. Secondly, I am not attached to ANY of our current team. I see very few players as un-tradeable. Mack was an exception. My only desire for the rest is that we get good value. That includes Carr. This fan base gets too attached to sub-standard players. Always fretting that they'll go somewhere else and dominate. It's a fruitless thing to fret over. Players should not have guaranteed roster spots. Make them earn it. If there's someone better, don't let the door hit you in the ass. I want a winning team. I don't care what the names on the jerseys say.

Nebulous statistics?  SO.... a CB not giving up passes, not getting beat, and BARELY getting scored on... when targeted just as much as any other CB in the league is nebulous?  Bro... you do realize, we have one of the worst pass defenses in the league, meaning we were targeted and thrown at... a LOT...

And with that said/done... Conley was the 8th (EIGHTH) best Cover CB in the LEAGUE... But that's nebulous?  Maybe its just YOUR glasses fogged up... and you need to wipe em, cuz that's pretty damn good, brother... lol...

All meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Did we win? No?

Then they failed.

NOWWWWWWW you say it's way too soon to call Conley anything... but when that was my POINT this entire ordeal, too early, you (and/or others) were saying the opposite, lol...  So don't blame me for "doing anything"...

I'm just saying that his little personal "victories" don't matter. If we acquire 4 better cornerbacks between now and the start of the season, then I'd have no problem cutting him. He's just a player.

So again, fuck the good players... they don't matter... because we suck...

Now you're getting it!

In all seriousness, what I'm saying is that things getting flagged as "good" are irrelevant when the result is losing. If our players were as "good" as you allege, then we would be winning more. Number of w's is the only important gauge.

So if you're building a house, instead of picking out the bad bricks, tossing them aside... and keeping the good ones... You're just going to throw em all away, until you get a perfect load, with all good bricks... not a bad one in sight... Gotcha  o;)[/size

No. When you build a shitty-looking death pit, no one is standing there saying, "Well...the house is a dumpster fire, but that brick is nice." The say, "knock that shit over and build it again."

So you knock it down, THEN look at bricks and decide if they're worth keeping. Your problem is that you focus on the bricks.

VARaider - "But Mr. Building inspector...isn't this a nice quality brick? Or how about this one here? That's the sturdiest brick I've ever seen. And all this one needs is to fill in that little crack, and it will be a great brick! Yes sir, there's a LOT of mighty fine bricks here!"

Mr. Building Inspector - "This is most poorly constructed edifice I've ever seen. Tear it down and start over."

Bro... lol... You literally just said we can't say any draft class was good, because we went 4-12...  So maybe I am confused... because it sure seems like 99% of your blame falls on the draft class... or draftees...

You are confused, yes. Glad that we have established this.

Umm... They needed a QB... Mahomes could have been taken before 10 by someone else... So yea... IMO, they lucked up... traded up and got him when they did... Or ... on the other hand, he could have fallen to them without having to trade up... and they may have fleeced themselves... Considering Watson went 2 picks after, and no other QB was selected in the 1st round of that draft... Meh...

The Chiefs did not wait for woulda, coulda, shoulda...they made the move and got their guy.

Maybe Gruden didn't like carrots, or potatoes... Maybe JDR did... Maybe Downing liked beef, but all Musgrave had was Pork... Maybe Guenther used salt, maybe Norton used kosher salt, Get it?

Yes. But I am the consumer. Don't tell me about the labor when the baby is stillborn.

Stew is always better if it's ONE person (team) making it, using their own recipe... Not when you just have to find scraps (old/new) all over the kitchen and throw it in... and hope for the best...

An entirely different discussion. I will agree that this is a major contributing factor to our poor performance.

And irrelevant... So the Chiefs trade up, and select a QB (over Watson) no other QB was taken in that round... and they are geniuses... We pass up Aaron Donald, OBJ, Mike Evans, CJ Mosley... ALL positions of need that year... And select Mack... to you, that's luck... not "getting your guy"... Rightttt

Mahomes is just one example. We were a bit lucky that Mack fell to us that year. There was speculation that he would go as high as second overall. I actually wanted Donald and thought that was who we were going to take, because I expected Mack to be gone.

But I will still assert that Mack was a no-brainer pick. Aaron Donald, OBJ, Mike Evans, CJ Mosley...none of these guys was a consensus top five talent. Well, maybe Donald. Mack was a tier or two above all of them.

If you have a good player... YOU KEEP HIM... didn't Mack teach us that lesson... He was the "bright spot" you keep ridiculing

I completely agree that we should have kept Mack. But it was obvious that he was a special talent. He was drawing double-teams and getting held almost from the first snap he played. NONE of our draftees from 2017 are even close to the same caliber as Mack.

We need Gruden the HC, not Gruden the GM... last year, he was Gruden the GM... and THAT'S the reason we went 4-12 brother...

There is no 'THE' reason. There were many reasons.

Key has shown promise, I think he just needs to beef up... Do was a hair away from MANY sacks last year... Once he learns better body control, and gets some more strength, he'll be good... He's very Aldon Smith like, but Smith was a big, strong MF!


If...when...he just needs...was a hair away...once he learns...

You have this tune on loop.

Speculation?  Bro, I watch the Chiefs almost as closely as I watch the Raiders, got a best friend who's a Chiefs fan, and we go back and forth EVERY WEEK about who did what, why... So sorry, your "speculation" throw won't work this time...

What I mean by speculation is that you are stating your means very little to me how closely you watched the Chiefs or didn't. You are drawing your own conclusions. 

9-1 with Hunt... Fact
4-4 without Hunt... Fact
IN all the games they lost, without Hunt, Kelce and Hill didn't do SHIT...  Fact
Patriots eliminated Hill (1 catch, 42 yards) Kelce (3 catches, 23 yards)... They Lost... Fact

True...but you're getting off topic. The Chiefs lost Hunt and definitely felt the impact. We lost Carr and it killed us.

And here you go... AGAIN... So their "12-4" matters... Our 12-4 didn't, even though we lost our possible MVP QB Week 15... and ProBowl LT week 16...  Wow... Talk about moving goalposts, lol...

What I said was that there collective roster is better than ours. And the evidence supports it.

In the last six seasons, the Chiefs have 11, 9, 11, 12, 10 and 12 wins and five playoff appearances.

During that same span, we have 4. 3, 7, 12, 6 and 4 wins and ONE playoff appearance.

So yes, their 12-4 is a bit better than average, but double digit wins have become the norm for them.

And do you remember, the KC game, we lost... with no KO or Jackson that year, and Carr playing with a broken Pinky?  In 8 degree weather... Probably not...

Losers always whine about doing their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

Chiefs have an awesome Quarterback, that's why they are good, period... And yet, they've choked, every single year they've made the playoffs, for almost 60 years... They went 23 years without even winning a playoff game, until 2-3 years ago...

Sure...and I root for them to fail. But only a fool would say that the Raiders are a better run organization at this point.

Yes, they are the epitome of success...  o;)[/size][/i]

Compared to US? Damn straight.

Its absolutely CRAZY how you (and others here) can use BAD records all day to justify everything, but totally disregard a GOOD record...  You are what your record says you are, period... 12-4, 1 game away from the #1 seed in the AFC... spin it all you want, we WON 12 games, doesn't matter how, when, where, why... the object is to WIN the game... and they did, 12 times...

Again, which is the aberration? The 15 losing seasons, or the ONE winning season? It DOES matter how. You keep pointing at one nut and claiming that the squirrel isn't blind.

See, there it goes... "6-10"... Got all kinds of excuses for 12-4... but 6-10 is just 6-10, lol... Even though our QB broke his back, missed a few games, Lynch got suspended, Penn got hurt, Rookie OC who didn't know shit, Conley injured all year, Obi injured all year... Like I said, if you're going to make excuses for 12-4... I hope you're willing to be consistent, and make excuses for 6-10 or 4-12.

You want to talk about consistency? Okay...we consistently SUCK.

Ok... so what is your point?  You've repeatedly said we suck because our drafts suck... and here you're saying the drafts and talent don't matter because we suck... I'm confused brother... Or either you need to pick a side of your argument... and stick with it...

That is NOT what I'm saying. I'm saying that you cannot assess the players on the basis of individual merit. None of them really stood out. There were a few flashes, sure. Other than that, we have to evaluate them in terms of their contribution to the product on the field.

The product on the field was doo doo.

My point is we sucked for MANY MORE REASONS than JUST the 2017 (or ANY draft)... 4 HCs, 5 OCs, 4 DCs, in SIX YEARS BRO!  That will fuck up ANYTHING "future" and "draft" related... Do you see my point?  All these guys were drafted by different Coaching Staffs, with different schemes and different philosophies... How do you expect them to develop?  If one fits on HC and another doesn't?  The proof is how Gruden cleaned house of damn near all our recent picks, he obviously realized the same thing I'm saying...  [/i][/size]

I DON'T expect them to develop. Nor do I defend them and claim that they are "good" based on nebulous statistics.

Then how, as a coach (or fan)... do you build a competitive team, if you don't evaluate the good and bad of said team?  So we're supposed to clean house every year we don't go over 500?  Scrap everything and start fresh... every year?  And send the best players from that year packing?  SO because we went 4-12... that mean Conley isn't a good CB, and he should be released?   Same with Hurst, Hall, Key, Joseph, etc?  Yikes bro...

You seem to enjoy manufacturing conflict where none exists. This is reductio ad absurdum...I am NOT saying this.

It is way too soon to call Conley anything. He played well in stretches last season. That's nice. He might develop into a solid/Pro-Bowl caliber corner.

But it doesn't matter if we suck.

So by your logic, Jalen Ramsey, Leonard Fournette, Cam Robinson, Myles Jack,  Ngakoue all suck, including their draft class because they went 5-11 last year... Gotcha...

No...I don't think you did.

I think you're wrong bro... and you're isolated in placing blame on a draft class for a team having a bad record (and/or vice versa)... Coaching, injuries, poor QB play. turnovers, takeaways, run defense, pass defense, total defense, points, points allowed... Those are all the things that determine if a team sucks...

No, I'm not "isolated in placing blame on a draft class". I'm saying that the little "Good Job" stickers you seem so anxious to dole out are meaningless in light of the big picture.

Not a draft class... and NO single draft class is not abundant enough to have such a damning/psitive affect on any of those categories...  Not to mention coaching and decision making... even simple play-calling... So again, I agree to disagree... [/i][/size]

So again... you're blaming the DRAFTEES for getting DRAFTED at certain spots?  WTF are they supposed to do... When Gruden calls them... say "Uhhhh, no thanks, can you wait until the 3rd round to draft me, because I don't think I'm 1st/2nd round material"... ? ? ?  lmao... Cmon bro...

Again...NOT what I'm saying. But it IS what you seem to be dwelling on.

And they did get lucky, just as we got lucky... by having Carr fall to us in the 2nd, and him turning into our "franchise QB"...

Carr dropping to us? That could be considered luck, yes.

The Chiefs TRADED UP to take Mahomes. They didn't take any chances. They identified his potential, targeted him and INTENTIONALLY put themselves in a position to select him.

So did we not know what we were doing, by drafting Mack, Carr, Jackson and Ellis in the 2014 draft?  Cooper the next year, Joseph the next, Conley the next... All starters and pieces we DON'T have to worry about moving forward?  (Minus Mack and Cooper, of course, because this regime traded them away)...

Knew...didn't know...threw a dart at the big board and made the pick...irrelevant.

We all got invited to Mark Davis' house to have some Raider Stew. We sat down, everything looked nice. There was dinner music, candles and fancy crystal finger bowls.

Then we all got served and the stew TASTED LIKE SEWAGE.

Then VARaider says "Look at those potatoes...there's no bad spots. And those carrots? Some of the freshest I've ever seen. The marbling on that meat was tender."

Limb Reaper says "Who cares??? It tastes like SHIT!!!"

And I beg to differ that we got "fleeced"... they traded down and STILL got their guy... They believed a LT was the biggest need, considering Penn's situation, and the piss poor pass protection from the previous year... And I believe the picks they acquired were manipulated to draft Hurst and Key... 2 cornerstones of their defense moving forward...

This is where I disagree with Gruden big time. Having a "need" does not warrant overpaying for a sub-standard prospect to try and fill the void. Getting Hurst in the fifth was a great pick. Key...hasn't really demonstrated that he can stick yet IMO. But Brandon Parker? Not impressed. Kolton Miller? Jury is lunch. Spending the third rounder to get Bryant? TERRIBLE.

Like I said, without them taking a risk on a pregnant woman beater, TWO woman beaters to be exact (Hunt)... Mahomes would have HALF the success he had last season... After Hunt was released, their offense took a huge hit... in fact, that's when they started LOSING games...

This is all speculation on your part. You do this often. You cannot support your position effectively with woulda, coulda, shoulda.

12-4, made it to AFC Championship.


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